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I fear the rise of National Conservatism

(284 Posts)
DaisyAnne Mon 24-Apr-23 11:12:25

I have disliked the direction the Conservatives have taken but this is such a stark reflection of the 1930s that I fear it.

Not heard of them? This New Statesman Podcast by Andrew Marr may help you understand who and what they are.

They are holding a conference next month (15 - 17 May). Speakers are to include Jacob Rees Mogg, Michael Gove, Suella Braverman and Danny Kruger. There will be lots of our Union flags, apparently. GB News also seems strongly represented.

Marr is a very knowledgeable man, so can give a much better explanation about where this Nationalist party has come from and why, than I can.

He does explain what the Labour Party are offering - a stronger state built on less centralisation - in reply to the perceived problems that have given the extreme right power around the world to revive nationalism. (He is going to do an analysis of the left in this series)

He also explains the roots of this party, as shown by its website nationalconservatism.org/ and summarises what this means to Rishi Sunak and to the left.

Please watch it before you reply, and don't just guess what it is about. We should both know and understand what this is about and where it is coming from.

MaizieD Wed 26-Apr-23 11:36:49

and do wonder what current ministers are doing lending their support to this ??

Showing their true colours?

Cossy Wed 26-Apr-23 11:33:05

It’s all very worrying and bit sad. I was brought up in a quite right wing, conservative and slightly Church of England household, by lovely middle class parents who were kind, generous and loving people who brought me up to have a strong work ethic, believe in free enterprise, freedom of speech but most importantly freedom to think independently and make up my own mind about my ethics, morals, religious and political leanings - as a result I’m a middle political being, leaning towards the left, with a strong work ethic and strong sense of justice. My parents would not recognise this movement nor class it as conservatism if they were alive today. I agree with Germanshepherdmum that Farage is extremely dangerous and not to be trusted and do wonder what current ministers are doing lending their support to this ??

MaizieD Wed 26-Apr-23 07:53:46

growstuff

And, yes, the "new conservatives" know very well that people are jealous of Oxbridge elites and have weaponised the spite for their own ends. Sorry to introduce Godwin's Law, but the Nazis did the same - hence the emphasis on "Volk" (people).

Is it jealousy, though, growstuff?. Or is it just frustration at the stranglehold the public school, Oxbridge, elites seem to have regained over so many aspects of public life?

It does seem to me that the people who have weaponised spite are the 'elite' who are in charge at the moment.

ronib Wed 26-Apr-23 06:07:03

My husband thinks that the new conservatives can come up with whatever new ideas and policies it likes. None of them are going to make any headway with the Civil Service so not sure if we can relax or not.

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 22:19:29

And, yes, the "new conservatives" know very well that people are jealous of Oxbridge elites and have weaponised the spite for their own ends. Sorry to introduce Godwin's Law, but the Nazis did the same - hence the emphasis on "Volk" (people).

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 22:17:29

ronib

It depends on how you interpret criticism Growstuff - spite is an emotional reaction and isn’t part of objective analysis/criticism. Interesting book though.

I wasn't thinking about spite - more academic criticism, for want of a better word. I follow Goodwin on Twitter and wondered what was behind the push on his book - I see it's advertised on the National Conservative website. The reviews reckon it lacks originality. It's a rehash of old ideas. I'm reluctant to increase his profits by buying it, so maybe I'll have a look in a charity shop in a few weeks. The same ideas were behind a lot of the Brexit propaganda.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 22:07:09

It depends on how you interpret criticism Growstuff - spite is an emotional reaction and isn’t part of objective analysis/criticism. Interesting book though.

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 21:45:39

Fleurpepper

Oreo

Amazes me how much spite attaches itself to anyone who did well at Oxford or Cambridge, I always assume it’s envy.
As to the subject of the OP, I don’t find it terrifying as it will never become mainstream in the conservative party, just as the extreme left won’t become mainstream in the labour party.

Amazes me how you can read the comments above as 'spite about anyone who did well at Oxford and Cambridge' sad

That's exactly what Goodwin does in his book - criticises the "Oxbridge elite".

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 21:44:41

ronib

Oreo I must admit that I am struggling a bit with some of the illogical statements issued by the Edmund Burke Foundation. It often seems to me that exceptionally able/academic people often lack common sense. I don’t think this movement will last very long here. I don’t subscribe to some of its fundamental beliefs and I can’t see it making much headway in the Uk in its current format. I can understand why a Christian group would seek to evangelise but this is not for the Uk market.

Have you read the blurb about Matt Goodwin's latest book? It's all about criticising the "elite" (a la Brexit), the argument is contradictory because all it's doing is giving a different "elite" power.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 21:37:35

Oreo

Well the labour Party was in the process of being taken over by the extreme left when Corbyn was being idolised but it didn’t happen, they lost the GE big time, threw Corbyn out and stopped listening to the super left lefties.
The same will happen to the conservatives if they go down the extreme right road.

It hasn't so far. And the best of them have been thrown out or left. Unlike what has happened in the Labour Party.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 21:35:28

Oreo I must admit that I am struggling a bit with some of the illogical statements issued by the Edmund Burke Foundation. It often seems to me that exceptionally able/academic people often lack common sense. I don’t think this movement will last very long here. I don’t subscribe to some of its fundamental beliefs and I can’t see it making much headway in the Uk in its current format. I can understand why a Christian group would seek to evangelise but this is not for the Uk market.

Oreo Tue 25-Apr-23 20:52:04

Well the labour Party was in the process of being taken over by the extreme left when Corbyn was being idolised but it didn’t happen, they lost the GE big time, threw Corbyn out and stopped listening to the super left lefties.
The same will happen to the conservatives if they go down the extreme right road.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 20:38:39

Look at what happened to true one nation Conservatives- all pushed out by the ERG- to see that the extreme right has taken over the Cons.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 20:37:26

Oreo

Amazes me how much spite attaches itself to anyone who did well at Oxford or Cambridge, I always assume it’s envy.
As to the subject of the OP, I don’t find it terrifying as it will never become mainstream in the conservative party, just as the extreme left won’t become mainstream in the labour party.

Amazes me how you can read the comments above as 'spite about anyone who did well at Oxford and Cambridge' sad

Oreo Tue 25-Apr-23 20:30:26

Amazes me how much spite attaches itself to anyone who did well at Oxford or Cambridge, I always assume it’s envy.
As to the subject of the OP, I don’t find it terrifying as it will never become mainstream in the conservative party, just as the extreme left won’t become mainstream in the labour party.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 19:12:05

A double first… nowhere near BJ!

MaizieD Tue 25-Apr-23 19:02:53

ronib

Growstuff double first in classics from Balliol. Okay not bad! Still quite young.

I think we've had our fill of people with Classics degrees...

MaizieD Tue 25-Apr-23 19:01:43

Fleurpepper

nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/

Thank you for that link, Fp 😱

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 19:01:34

ronib

Growstuff I last five minutes listening to Roger Scruton so admire your perseverance!

I feel the same about Harry/Meghan, the RF in general, Get me out of here, Strictly and that cake baking programme.

Observing politics is a hobby.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 18:59:46

Growstuff double first in classics from Balliol. Okay not bad! Still quite young.

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 18:55:38

ronib

GSM okay. Fine. I didn’t claim any gravitas for legal background. Just trying to understand how someone from Cambridge University which usually does have gravitas is involved.

He's an associate professor! grin Sorry, but there's not a huge amount of gravitas attached to that.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 18:23:33

Agreed, and yet many will refuse to see it. And the ERG and Vote Leave were very much part of this.

varian Tue 25-Apr-23 18:13:26

It seems to me that Brexit was just a first step in the plan by these National Conservatives to push the UK much further to the right.

What do we hear about that agenda from the right wing tabloids?

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 18:11:50

nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 18:03:24

Yes, agreed.