Sudan

maddyone

It’s just a pity that as usual there are a many people complaining about the British response. Our diplomats were extracted quickly and of course they were the first because direct threats have been made against them, and additionally they would have been in the capital city, so more easily able to get to the airport. Now British citizens are being evacuated, and there are apparently about 4000 people eligible to be evacuated, whereas other countries have had far fewer people to evacuate, often only a few hundred. Many people who are eligible are in remote villages and fear making the difficult journey to the capital city, and who can blame them for that. But our forces cannot be expected to access every remote village in the country, risking their own lives, to find people in the middle of a civil war.
Many people are being evacuated. Our forces are doing an admirable and difficult job. Stop the criticisms and be pleased people are getting out.

Good post maddyone I totally agree

Grantanow

I didn't 'blame' British forces in the ground. It's quite obvious different Ministers are telling different stories. And surely it is in the national interest to bring doctors back to work in an underfunded, overstretched NHS. Expecting them to make their own way back to the UK is ludicrous.

Do you not think that Sudan really needs all its doctors at this present time?

It’s just a pity that as usual there are a many people complaining about the British response. Our diplomats were extracted quickly and of course they were the first because direct threats have been made against them, and additionally they would have been in the capital city, so more easily able to get to the airport. Now British citizens are being evacuated, and there are apparently about 4000 people eligible to be evacuated, whereas other countries have had far fewer people to evacuate, often only a few hundred. Many people who are eligible are in remote villages and fear making the difficult journey to the capital city, and who can blame them for that. But our forces cannot be expected to access every remote village in the country, risking their own lives, to find people in the middle of a civil war.
Many people are being evacuated. Our forces are doing an admirable and difficult job. Stop the criticisms and be pleased people are getting out.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65420882
The above link to a BBC report
Sudanese NHS doctor 'betrayed' after being refused entry onto evacuation flight to UK

I didn't 'blame' British forces in the ground. It's quite obvious different Ministers are telling different stories. And surely it is in the national interest to bring doctors back to work in an underfunded, overstretched NHS. Expecting them to make their own way back to the UK is ludicrous.

The ceasefire has been extended for another 72 hours according to news bulletins, I hope it holds.

westendgirl

I dont think anyone is blaming British forces. Also on Question Time last night another participant ,who had served in Afghanistan spoke of his anger at the way Afghans who had worked for the British there were left.
It seems that communication is where this govt falls down in a big way . Yesterday , I think it was Mitchell who said safe
route s would be set up . This information was reversed by Braverman who said there woul be no safe route. (She is trying hard to be Cruella, isnt she ?)

It’s a civil war there are no guaranteed safe routes, we do not have the ability to guarantee the safety of a convoy out of Sudan.
The security of the airfield used is being controlled by Sudanese troops, they are allowing access by civilians to the airport for now. That might change we don’t know, our own military has said the airlift will continue as long as it is safe to do so.
Neither side in this war has any interest in stopping foreigners leaving the country so possibly a few extra days evacuation may be allowed.

westendgirl

I dont think anyone is blaming British forces. Also on Question Time last night another participant ,who had served in Afghanistan spoke of his anger at the way Afghans who had worked for the British there were left.
It seems that communication is where this govt falls down in a big way . Yesterday , I think it was Mitchell who said safe
route s would be set up . This information was reversed by Braverman who said there woul be no safe route. (She is trying hard to be Cruella, isnt she ?)

Ok despite being a Conservative I am not a fan of Ms.Braverman or he policies.

However, in a situation like Sudan, the Government and the people on the ground in Sudan have to prioritise U.K. Citizens.

I didn’t see Question Time.

Withdrawal from Afghanistan started way before those dreadful scenes at the airport over the last couple of days before the USA totally withdrew. I have empathy for those who were left behind, but we do not know every single detail of every single case.

I dont think anyone is blaming British forces. Also on Question Time last night another participant ,who had served in Afghanistan spoke of his anger at the way Afghans who had worked for the British there were left.
It seems that communication is where this govt falls down in a big way . Yesterday , I think it was Mitchell who said safe
route s would be set up . This information was reversed by Braverman who said there woul be no safe route. (She is trying hard to be Cruella, isnt she ?)

Thanks for the clarification Casdon

It is unfortunate that the Doctors are caught up in the war, but evacuation at the moment is for U.K. citizens or those with duel
Nationality.

If they are Sudanese Nationals their Country will no doubt need Doctors if this power struggle develops into an all out civil war.

GrannyGravy13

Grantanow

Last night on Question Time was raised the case of a Sudanese doctor trying to return to his NHS job in the UK who was denied a place on the UK rescue flight. Rachel MacLean, the Tory Minister, said discretion was exercised 'on the ground'. There are some 24 doctors trying to return to a short-staffed NHS and obviously the Tories don't care. MacLean blustered, obfuscated and gave an utterly unconvincing performance as noted this morning in the Huff Post. Braverman apparently said such doctors should make their own way back to the UK. Really? What a shambles. MacLean should be sacked.

The priority so far has been women, children, the elderly and sick.

I assume the Doctor didn’t fit any of those categories.

Please do not automatically blame the British Forces at the airfield who are doing their best in what is a war zone.

It wasn’t that, it was because these doctors aren’t British citizens, they have working visas for the UK, as so many foreign doctors who work in the NHS do. It does seem wrong that they aren’t being helped to return, as they will have jumped through many hoops to get their working visas, and the NHS does need them. They should be asked to remain at the airport and be allowed to take vacant seats if there are any.

Grantanow

Last night on Question Time was raised the case of a Sudanese doctor trying to return to his NHS job in the UK who was denied a place on the UK rescue flight. Rachel MacLean, the Tory Minister, said discretion was exercised 'on the ground'. There are some 24 doctors trying to return to a short-staffed NHS and obviously the Tories don't care. MacLean blustered, obfuscated and gave an utterly unconvincing performance as noted this morning in the Huff Post. Braverman apparently said such doctors should make their own way back to the UK. Really? What a shambles. MacLean should be sacked.

The priority so far has been women, children, the elderly and sick.

I assume the Doctor didn’t fit any of those categories.

Please do not automatically blame the British Forces at the airfield who are doing their best in what is a war zone.

Last night on Question Time was raised the case of a Sudanese doctor trying to return to his NHS job in the UK who was denied a place on the UK rescue flight. Rachel MacLean, the Tory Minister, said discretion was exercised 'on the ground'. There are some 24 doctors trying to return to a short-staffed NHS and obviously the Tories don't care. MacLean blustered, obfuscated and gave an utterly unconvincing performance as noted this morning in the Huff Post. Braverman apparently said such doctors should make their own way back to the UK. Really? What a shambles. MacLean should be sacked.

TBH I’m not sure why anyone who didn’t actually need to be there, was visiting, even if they have family there. Sudan has been dangerous and unstable for quite a while.

Just last weekend I spoke to a humanitarian aid worker, a friend of a dd, who has been to Sudan several times for work, but said he wouldn’t be going again for the foreseeable. He said that even before the current conflict kicked off, he had narrowly missed a bullet that whizzed right past his head. He has young children to think of.

Grantanow

I think it likely quite a significant number of British nationals will not be evacuated given the situation on the ground.

In reading an interview with Lloyd Austin, it seems many countries will be forced to leave people back/not extract everyone.

Unfortunately I think you are correct.

I saw an item on the news this morning saying that approximately 2,000 people have been contacted by U.K. Government with evacuation details. These are U.K. nationals/passport holders that they have contact details for.

They think that there could be approximately up to another 2,000 who were in Sudan, some who may have already left independently.

I hope that the behind the scenes negotiations continue in good faith by all involved parties.

I think it likely quite a significant number of British nationals will not be evacuated given the situation on the ground.

The Herks are old, they'll be replaced with new transports.

Katie59

MayBee70

Said on the news today that the aircraft being used to bring people back from Sudan will be decommissioned soon: another cost cutting measure. It doesn’t sound as though they’re going to be replaced either.

The Hercules is being phased out to be replaced by new A400M transports larger and faster, 22 are ordered.

Apparently 2 plane loads 300 or so in total have been brought out, its going to need to be much faster although only 500 a day was the target, so it seems a lot will have to get out elsewhere. Problems are reported getting to the airfield and the runway is breaking up.

This may get very difficult.

Thanks Katie.

There's no easy solution to the evacuation problem, and it's not appropriate to suggest that the Dutch have more of a handle on this than the U.K. does. The Dutch have around 300 Nationals there... we have around 4,000, so comparisons simply don't work. Also, I think that we have quite rightly being working behind the scenes, with others, to encourage a ceasefire which would then reduce the risks involved, but sadly not eliminate them.. We now have a 3 day ceasefire which is just about holding, and people are being encouraged to leave their "safe places" and to head for the main pick-up point... an airfield about 20 km north west of Khartoum, although this transit still remains fraught with danger. Fuel is also scarce in Khartoum, so this is an added complication. Bottom line.. the on-going evacuation is very much "seat of the pants" stuff, and I don't envy the Government and Military planners who have to make it work. A nightmare scenario, particularly for the Sudanese themselves.

MayBee70

Said on the news today that the aircraft being used to bring people back from Sudan will be decommissioned soon: another cost cutting measure. It doesn’t sound as though they’re going to be replaced either.

The Hercules is being phased out to be replaced by new A400M transports larger and faster, 22 are ordered.

Apparently 2 plane loads 300 or so in total have been brought out, its going to need to be much faster although only 500 a day was the target, so it seems a lot will have to get out elsewhere. Problems are reported getting to the airfield and the runway is breaking up.

This may get very difficult.

MayBee70

Said on the news today that the aircraft being used to bring people back from Sudan will be decommissioned soon: another cost cutting measure. It doesn’t sound as though they’re going to be replaced either.

Seems the US brought their people out in special operations helicopters - whatever works for good result.

MayBee70

Said on the news today that the aircraft being used to bring people back from Sudan will be decommissioned soon: another cost cutting measure. It doesn’t sound as though they’re going to be replaced either.

As long as they get people out now, what happens to them afterwards is for a new thread.

Operational aircraft are subject to many safety checks and if these are at the end of their operational duty so be it.

Said on the news today that the aircraft being used to bring people back from Sudan will be decommissioned soon: another cost cutting measure. It doesn’t sound as though they’re going to be replaced either.

There seems to be quite a bit of cooperation between nations. The British Akrotiri air base on Cyprus is being used by the French and Germans as well as the UK and some evacuations have included other countries' nationals. Some of these airstrips from former times prove useful and maybe need to be retained rather than run down.