Bannau Brycheiniog. Yes or no.?

MrsKen33

Aren’t we supposed to be calling Snowdon Yr Wyddfa now?

Probably!

But I've yet to hear anyone say they're off to visit the family up in Eryri.

Aren’t we supposed to be calling Snowdon Yr Wyddfa now?

Aldom

Grandma70s

Moel Famau, though, which can easily be seen from the Wirral Peninsula, is only ever called by its Welsh name as far as I know.

You are correct Grandma70s I used to live very near Moel Famau.

Right then, so who's off walking in The Bannau next weekend?

Because very few people will use the full name apart from those in charge of the National Park and Michael Sheen.

Grandma70s

Moel Famau, though, which can easily be seen from the Wirral Peninsula, is only ever called by its Welsh name as far as I know.

You are correct Grandma70s I used to live very near Moel Famau.

The last time I went up Sugar Loaf was the hard way with DH (he was leading). We stopped for lunch and a sheep came and snaffled my sandwich 😁

Callistemon21

I've climbed Sugar Loaf with a crowd of young children, don't think I'd have attempted to go up Pen y Fan with them.

Definitely not - although I have seen idiots going up the lower footpaths in flipflops and high heels. Keeps the Mountain Rescue team busy.

Moel Famau, though, which can easily be seen from the Wirral Peninsula, is only ever called by its Welsh name as far as I know.

I've climbed Sugar Loaf with a crowd of young children, don't think I'd have attempted to go up Pen y Fan with them.

Just to clarify, in case anybody is still confused.
The signs for the Brecon Beacons have always had Bannau Brycheiniog on the sign as well, it’s not a new name, just that the national park is now to be known by the Welsh name not the English version.

Pen y Fan is still a beacon, it was last lit for the Queens Jubilee last year - there are quite a few in this area which is probably why it became known as the Beacons originally. King Charles has decided that the beacons won’t be lit for the coronation because he wanted it scaled down.

Brecon town is called Aberhonddu in Welsh, with Breichiniog being the medieval name for the kingdom of South Wales.
Pen y Fan is the highest peak of the Beacons, and is not the same mountain as Sugar Loaf, which is near Abergavenny, about 20 miles from Pen y Fan, but still within Bannau Breichiniog. Sugar Loaf is also a beacon.

Anniebach

Callistemon I just googled and yes the pub, read further on,
he had 24 daughters ! I remembered he had married a Gladys because I had an aunt Gladys, but 24 daughters and many sons , explains 3 wives

24 daughters!! Just imagine the fight for the well water 😲
And sons too
Even those three wives must have been exhausted.

I had three Aunt Gladys's (it was a popular name in the early 1900s).

dinahmo I think you missed my point. Obviously if you go to a country you need to know what name to look for on a map. If anyone doesn't then that is just stupidity, rather than arrogance, like people who watch their children dig deep holes on beaches and then are aghast and petrified when the sides collapse burying, or partially burying their child.

But most of the examples I gave were what other countries call places in England, rather than what we call places outside this country. There are very few countries who do not have these kinds of names in their language and many have a history buried deep in time.

Callistemon I just googled and yes the pub, read further on,
he had 24 daughters ! I remembered he had married a Gladys because I had an aunt Gladys, but 24 daughters and many sons , explains 3 wives

I remember the discussions about re-introducing the teaching of Welsh in schools too.

Even fairly recently, some schools were put into special measures, the only problem being that the teaching of Weleh was inadequate.
And why was that? Because there were not enough Welsh speakers qualified to teach it.

Anniebach

Remember the fight to have road signs in Welsh and English?

Yes. I remember going on holiday in rural West Wales and the signposts at crossroads were turned round.
We saw some lovely, unexpected places!

Anniebach, I thought I'd look up King Brychan as he sounds interesting but the first thing that came up on Google was a pub and carvery in Merthyr Tydfil 😁

Remember the fight to have road signs in Welsh and English?

Dinahmo

M0nica

I see no reason why the Welsh should not use the Welsh name and the English the English.

Lots of countries have different versions of a name for places
London - Londres (France) - Londra (Italian) The French call England Angleterre, the Germans talk of Grossbritannien.

It seems perfectly reasonable for the Welsh and English to use different names in different languages.

Using the actual country's name can cause confusion. I heard about the parents (both teachers) of friends driving around looking for the way to Florence and just seeing signs for Firenze. It's either arrogance, or ignorance (take your pick) not to know the names of places being visited in the name of the country and not the Anglicized version.

English and Welsh are both official languages in Wales.

So anyone would expect place names to be in both languages.

It is said you can see Penyfan from Snowdon on a clear day, I couldn’t see it when I did Snowdon !

It wasn't a clear day when I went up - is it ever 😀 - but must admit I funked the last few steps and had to go back down very slowly and carefully backwards on hands and knees to the bemusement of everyone waiting to climb the last bit.
🤢

M0nica

I see no reason why the Welsh should not use the Welsh name and the English the English.

Lots of countries have different versions of a name for places
London - Londres (France) - Londra (Italian) The French call England Angleterre, the Germans talk of Grossbritannien.

It seems perfectly reasonable for the Welsh and English to use different names in different languages.

Using the actual country's name can cause confusion. I heard about the parents (both teachers) of friends driving around looking for the way to Florence and just seeing signs for Firenze. It's either arrogance, or ignorance (take your pick) not to know the names of places being visited in the name of the country and not the Anglicized version.

Thanks Anniebach. So he wasn't Welsh then either. The new name sounds nice. But I wonder how long it will be until it is generally accepted. Years ago the closed the older and smaller of our two hospitals and , without any warning, transferred the name to the much bigger hospital. You can always tell the age of anyone talking about it and of how long they they lived here, just by which name they use. I don't know of anyone who uses the new name easily. Not even my daughter and she works there.
I think the new name will be a process of evolution not revolution.

Welsh for beacon is goleudai .

King Brychan Brycheiniog ? Seems born in Ireland, married several times, one wife named Gladys, many sons who went to
Cornwall to save the Cornish people , I am repeating what my history teacher taught, he dismissed the fact a church in Cornwall has a stained glass window of King Brychan !

The link re beacons, Snowdon, Penyfan, Cader Idris, Sugar Loaf in the Black Mountains etc , definitely beacons lit to warn
of English approaching.

It is said you can see Penyfan from Snowdon on a clear day, I couldn’t see it when I did Snowdon !

Thank you Callistemon. So presumably Brychan was the name of a chieftain or king? Sounds very old world romantic, though it was probably b****y hard.

I was wondering wher Anniebach was. She will set us all straight isn’t it ?

Lizbethann55

If the new name isn't a direct translation of the old, what does it mean?

The Peaks of Brychan's Kingdom

Presumably Brecon is an anglicised form of Brychan
A beacon means a warning light eg as in lighthouse or a fire beacon on a hill.

Perhaps Brychan lit fires on those peaks as warnings.

Anniebach - help!!

Completely off topic but interesting...

The Gaelic name for Fort William is taken to mean "The garrison".

As you were.