Voter ID

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Fleurpepper

No, just too obvious to bother.

Really? I still await enlightenment. Are you not able to supply it?

Could we perhaps hear what other countries require in the way of ID

Our new system is apparently the most stringent in operation anywhere.

The Government's own study also showed that (I think 0.7% of the 2% who had no suitable ID from memory) couldn't vote. It was small but not exactly insignificant number.
I can look it up later. Or someone else can.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Personally, I suspect that there a few people who don't have the wherewithal to vote wisely, but we are supposed to live in a one person/one vote democracy and I don't think we should be introducing some kind of intelligence test to see whether people are worthy of a vote.

Of course you are correct growstuff I was feeling slightly mischievous so thought I would play devils advocate.

Good Heavens, GG13. I recall making the same suggestion, as a joke, a few years ago and you gave me a distinctly frosty response!

This is what all you who thing that people should have known, or they should have planned in advance and whatever other things that 'people' should have done, seem to forget. There are people whose circumstances or mental capacity or inability to read, make it difficult or impossible to do whatever you all think they should have done.

But they are all entitled to vote We have universal adult suffrage.

FP is right. There are people posting who are living in a bubble and seem to be unable to see out of it.

I have already posted that I was being mischievous and playing devils advocate. There was ample time to get ID if needed, it was even detailed on Poling Cards what would and wouldn’t be accepted and how to apply for the free ID certificate.

It looks like the need for photographic ID is here to stay, unless of course the next Government backtrack.

People have got more than enough time to apply for the free certificate if they need to before the GE.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Personally, I suspect that there a few people who don't have the wherewithal to vote wisely, but we are supposed to live in a one person/one vote democracy and I don't think we should be introducing some kind of intelligence test to see whether people are worthy of a vote.

Of course you are correct growstuff I was feeling slightly mischievous so thought I would play devils advocate.

Good Heavens, GG13. I recall making the same suggestion, as a joke, a few years ago and you gave me a distinctly frosty response!

This is what all you who thing that people should have known, or they should have planned in advance and whatever other things that 'people' should have done, seem to forget. There are people whose circumstances or mental capacity or inability to read, make it difficult or impossible to do whatever you all think they should have done.

But they are all entitled to vote We have universal adult suffrage.

FP is right. There are people posting who are living in a bubble and seem to be unable to see out of it.

Yes - there will always be a group that aren't coping at all, but I'm thinking of a band above that, where a level of making it really simple/accessible would have been able to vote and would do in the future.

One obvious problem is how much is paperless atm unless you have a printer so producing what used to be the easier sent to you utility bills - water, gas, bank, council tax, TV licence, membership of this or that credible organisation is getting harder and harder.

But not beyond the ability to find solutions. We really do need to bring as many people as possible into the voting booth or postal vote for our future.

Fleurpepper

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Personally, I suspect that there a few people who don't have the wherewithal to vote wisely, but we are supposed to live in a one person/one vote democracy and I don't think we should be introducing some kind of intelligence test to see whether people are worthy of a vote.

Of course you are correct growstuff I was feeling slightly mischievous so thought I would play devils advocate.

and then accuse others from being disingenuous- wow!

At least I admit it when I am being mischievous…

Although I live in Scotland, I do know one person who couldn't vote because she didn't have any suitable ID. She's never held a driving licence or passport and doesn't have a bus pass or anything similar. She would probably fall into the category of what some on here have described as 'not having the wherewithal' - but she was quite distressed as she's voted in every other election since she was eligible. She can't have been the only one in this position, surely|?

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Personally, I suspect that there a few people who don't have the wherewithal to vote wisely, but we are supposed to live in a one person/one vote democracy and I don't think we should be introducing some kind of intelligence test to see whether people are worthy of a vote.

Of course you are correct growstuff I was feeling slightly mischievous so thought I would play devils advocate.

and then accuse others from being disingenuous- wow!

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Personally, I suspect that there a few people who don't have the wherewithal to vote wisely, but we are supposed to live in a one person/one vote democracy and I don't think we should be introducing some kind of intelligence test to see whether people are worthy of a vote.

That was clearly exposed a few years ago!

How about some kind of intelligence test for candidates wishing to stand in elections? Not sure what the bottom line should be.

Foxygloves

A valid point Wyllow but what would be considered sufficient personal ID? Other than those examples already identified.

For young people, a travel card or certificate from school/college with photo and official stamp (dead easy to produce).

If there are people who genuinely have no photographic ID and no council tax or utility bills, something is very wrong. Such people are going to be excluded from almost all society, so maybe there should be citizen cards (or something) for them.

The issue is likely to be that they have mental health problems, are homeless or just not very bright and they are already effectively excluded from mainstream society.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Personally, I suspect that there a few people who don't have the wherewithal to vote wisely, but we are supposed to live in a one person/one vote democracy and I don't think we should be introducing some kind of intelligence test to see whether people are worthy of a vote.

Of course you are correct growstuff I was feeling slightly mischievous so thought I would play devils advocate.

Wyllow3

when voting figures are regularly under 30% often low as %23% in some areas its clear that two things are at work: disaffection and difficulty. Those instructions above are too complicated and demanding for many to manage. Reading ages? Families in crisis struggling with housing or feeding themselves or somehow managing the benefits system? some Elderly or ill, mentally or physically in capacitated to cope with so many complex things we manage day by day.

We ignore this at our peril, peril to our democracy.

I've been thinking that we need to make it really accessible. Like

"Go to your local PO with proof of your name and address and clear personal ID. There will be a photo booth and help to fill in the forms and you will be sent your voter ID"

Thank you Willow- as said, this is so obvious. Many people live in precarious conditions, one way or another.

And I did say I was happy to discuss proper ID, as exist in most other countries indeed.

GrannyGravy13

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Personally, I suspect that there a few people who don't have the wherewithal to vote wisely, but we are supposed to live in a one person/one vote democracy and I don't think we should be introducing some kind of intelligence test to see whether people are worthy of a vote.

A valid point Wyllow but what would be considered sufficient personal ID? Other than those examples already identified.

Fleurpepper

No, just too obvious to bother.

Or CBA?
I find some of this faux outrage unconvincing.
Just another excuse to clutch those pearls, take a pop at something in the UK
Perhaps the system could be simplified. How about photo ID cards for all?
Ooh cue another outburst of indignation.
Could we perhaps hear what other countries require in the way of ID both in general and in particular.

when voting figures are regularly under 30% often low as %23% in some areas its clear that two things are at work: disaffection and difficulty. Those instructions above are too complicated and demanding for many to manage. Reading ages? Families in crisis struggling with housing or feeding themselves or somehow managing the benefits system? some Elderly or ill, mentally or physically in capacitated to cope with so many complex things we manage day by day.

We ignore this at our peril, peril to our democracy.

I've been thinking that we need to make it really accessible. Like

"Go to your local PO with proof of your name and address and clear personal ID. There will be a photo booth and help to fill in the forms and you will be sent your voter ID"

No, just too obvious to bother.

I await enlightenment Fleurpepper. Is that difficult for you?

in your bubble, yes. This is not how democracy works.

If people haven’t/didn’t have the wherewithal to apply for the much publicised free ID certificate perhaps they also haven’t got the wherewithal to vote?

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not in a bubble Fleurpepper. Who are these ‘many’ (your favourite word?) others and what are these ‘all sorts of reasons’? Pray enlighten me.

Your reply indicates that you do indeed ...

Fleurpepper

Foxygloves

From the website
Apply for photo ID to vote
It’s free to apply. You’ll need
a recent, digital photo of yourself
your National Insurance number
You can still apply if you do not have a National Insurance number. You’ll need to provide other documents to prove your identity, for example a birth certificate, bank statement and utility bill.
Start now

Other ways to apply

You can also apply by post.

There’s a different form for applying by post if you live abroad, you’re in the armed forces, a Crown Servant or a British Council employee.

You’ll need to print, fill out and send the form to your local Electoral Registration Office.

Get help applying
You can get help applying from your local Electoral Registration Office

^There’s an easy read guide about applying for a Voter Authority Certificate^

You do realise, I hope, that not everyone has access to the Internet.

You’d never guess from the prolific posting on Gransnet (and Mumsnet)
How good to have something other than Brexit or the lamentable state of the U.K. to get het up about.
BTW it says you can get help applying

I’m not in a bubble Fleurpepper. Who are these ‘many’ (your favourite word?) others and what are these ‘all sorts of reasons’? Pray enlighten me.