Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

Willow68

Growstuff

My comments were regarding the illegal imagration crossings hence the mention of the gangs making money.

But the crossings aren't illegal!!!!

I'm not sure what the gangs could be prosecuted for - fraud? illegal trafficking? I don't know.

But the crossings themselves are not illegal, if the people claim asylum immediately.

Growstuff

My comments were regarding the illegal imagration crossings hence the mention of the gangs making money.

www.gov.uk
10/03/23
Pm agrees unprecedented measures to tackle illegal migration with France - new detention centre in France, more French personnel, enhanced technology to patrol beaches in shared effort to drive down illegal migration.
???
Am reading How Westminster Works…and why it doesn’t. It’s very good so far.

Germanshepherdsmum

People already in a safe country are not desperate.

We don’t have the housing, school places or medical facilities needed by people born and paying taxes here.

What would you do with people you can’t identify? Just accept what they tell you?

Doctors from other countries cannot practise here without rigorous examination and maybe further training, as is the case with lawyers. .

What would you do with people you can’t identify? Just accept what they tell you?

Obviously not.

I gave six options. We could choose one of the other 5.

Thanks for the welcome back

Do you get paid by the word Whitewavemark2 ?

I totally agree with GSM too.

They are advised by the people smugglers to dispose of their passports and any other identifying paperwork so we cannot prove who they are or how old they are.

This is worrying for several reasons, mainly because they could be anybody - terrorists, murderers, escaped prisoners. Another concern is that we know many pose as young teenagers so they get taken into care, get free healthcare, education etc. we all remember the bearded men/children that kids all over the country were posting photos of saying “why is this 25 year old man in my Maths class with 15 year olds?”

volver3

If we "processed" the asylum claims in a timely way instead of making them live in limbo for years, they would be tax payers too. Or those who weren't tax payers and have no right to stay here would be sent home

100% As an ex CS it’s extraordinary how utterly inefficient some departments are - it’s simply not true to say the majority of asylum seekers are young (criminal) males - there have been a substantial number of young men who have very questionable motives but again that’s the system not processing and checking quickly enough - asylum seekers make up a very small percentage of our overall population and many simply could not come with official papers. Again it’s the traffickers we need to clamp down on and our system needs to change - asylum seekers are barred from working until they’ve been issued with “leave to remain” & “right to work” status by the home office so cannot contribute by paying taxes - neither can they claim normal welfare benefits til they’re “processed” - we do have huge infrastructure issues here and have done for years and years, particularly when Mrs T sold off our social housing stock without replacing it - this isn’t due to migrants.

Agree with you completely GSM !

People already in a safe country are not desperate.

We don’t have the housing, school places or medical facilities needed by people born and paying taxes here.

What would you do with people you can’t identify? Just accept what they tell you?

Doctors from other countries cannot practise here without rigorous examination and maybe further training, as is the case with lawyers. .

This is the YouTube video mentioned above my @Nicenanny3

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VaHQ3Sd_As

It shows what is happening on the shores of France, the camps and thousands of people from all over the world who are waiting to come to our country.

Do we take them all in?

It certainly makes you think!

Nicenanny3

15:49volver3

Others on here do not support the bill but never come up with a suitable alternative.

There are "suitable alternatives" in abundance. Many people just don't seem to want to hear about them and like to pretend they don't exist.

*tell us then I'm all ears*

Process asylum seekers in France before they even get here, as France offered to do.

Reintroduce legal routes so that desperate people don't have to rely on traffickers.

Show the population of the UK that this is just an invented crisis to make the current government look tough and to exploit people's fears, and that the numbers involved are tiny. 0.08% of our population per year, maximum.

Spend the huge sums we currently spend on keeping people in hotels, on beefing up the number of civil servants (I assume its civil servants) who can deal with asylum claims and get people through the system quicker.

If people have no right to be here, send them home. But that means that we have to assess whether they have a right to be here or not, and not just assume that everybody is out for a free ride courtesy of the UK taxpayer.

If people arriving on these shores have papers and can demonstrate skills in a particular area, allow them to work. They could be doctors, brickies, taxi drivers, scientists. Whatever. We're short of everything, aren't we? So they pay tax and contribute to our society.

‘Many’ is the key word volver.
So nice to have you back.

15:49volver3

Others on here do not support the bill but never come up with a suitable alternative.

There are "suitable alternatives" in abundance. Many people just don't seem to want to hear about them and like to pretend they don't exist.

tell us then I'm all ears

Germanshepherdsmum

I didn’t say none have papers volver. Read my post again.

It’s not known who many asylum seekers are Grantanow. They have no papers (either none in the first place or deliberately destroyed).

???

Well some might think you did. Glad you have clarified that.

Others on here do not support the bill but never come up with a suitable alternative.

There are "suitable alternatives" in abundance. Many people just don't seem to want to hear about them and like to pretend they don't exist.

If we "processed" the asylum claims in a timely way instead of making them live in limbo for years, they would be tax payers too. Or those who weren't tax payers and have no right to stay here would be sent home

Germanshepherdsmum

True. Add increased pressure on the NHS and education. Therefore I support the Bill - whatever it takes. This situation is not sustainable.

I totally agree with you GSM. This situation is not sustainable.
Others on here do not support the bill but never come up with a suitable alternative. We do not have the housing, hospitals, schools etc to support hundreds of people arriving on our shores every single day. The majority are young men who will eventually have their claim for asylum accepted and then they will probably send for their families to join them, where will they all live?? It is not sustainable.

I didn’t say none have papers volver. Read my post again.

We certainly have insufficient infrastructure to serve the people born and paying their taxes here. I know there are, in some areas, vast tracts of land which have been saved from development - do we really want to lose beautiful ancient landscapes in order to house all those deciding to come here?

They have no papers (either none in the first place or deliberately destroyed).

That comment is very misleading. Undoubtedly there are people who have no papers, but not all of them. As someone mentioned above, how do you get your papers if you are fleeing the Taliban, or the fighting in Sudan?

The whole argument about how we are a small country and we don't have enough resources doesn't stand up to scrutiny. That's quite naïve, not the people who know that we need migrants. As far as I'm aware, nobody has ever said that we should accept everybody who turns up in this country, whatever the Tory Government, or Farage, or any of the rest of them say to frighten you and try to get your vote.

I don't understand why people insist on saying that nobody puts forward alternative ways of dealing with migration when every discussion is bursting with ideas.

We have insufficient infrastructure.
This is the problem. When I moved from London to a university town in 1980, the population was around 90k. We had one main hospital and I remember school places were not in abundance. (I don't know about housing units at the time). Today in 2023 we now have a population of 135k, but still the one hospital and to my knowledge very few, if any, new schools. Every available piece of rural land seems to be being built on. Unfortunately we simply can't fit in any more people, and this is happening all over.

Yes, I agree with that - they have put themselves in danger by helping us.

maddyone

I agree with you GSM. With half a million people arriving legally in the UK each year, we do not need illegal immigrants too. We have insufficient infrastructure. As it is there are not enough houses/accommodation. Not enough health care, in particular too few doctors. Not enough teachers nor school places. Too many cars on our roads. Pressure to supply clean water to everyone in the country. The only people who are happy are those who sell food! Their sales will be up for every person who comes into the country.

As for how anyone comes from Afghanistan, I’m afraid every single citizen who lives in Afghanistan is in danger from the Taliban. Are we to accommodate them all?

We should certainly accommodate the ones that worked for us and have been deserted by the government.

It’s not known who many asylum seekers are Grantanow. They have no papers (either none in the first place or deliberately destroyed). We don’t even know the ages of many and the new Bill has had to make provision for that. How do you suppose they can work without papers? Yes, some will be doctors, dentists, lawyers but not qualified to practise in the UK. Some may be potential workers, others may be potential criminals. How do you tell the difference?

Seems plenty of naive posters on here think we should.