Labour will be a major reforming government

Glorianny

It is so funny how the only response from those middle of the road people who keep calling me far-left is condemnation of Corbyn. Never any policies they believe in or actions they will expect. It's almost like a vacuum the lack of real ideas. And it is scary.

Thats true

It is so funny how the only response from those middle of the road people who keep calling me far-left is condemnation of Corbyn. Never any policies they believe in or actions they will expect. It's almost like a vacuum the lack of real ideas. And it is scary.

We don't need a reforming government we need a transformative government people like the polices of public ownership, taxing the richest, not bringing private providers into NHS. There are still a lot of people who agree with and still want these things. The question is not about Corbyn but the polices that are still needed now. Starmer's doners with private health interests big business, very establishment thats all.

You brought Corbyn into this,

nearly won has never made anyone a Prime Minister

The election was nearly won only by a couple thousand votes more, millions voted for him His paid staffers were devastated he nearly won as they had been working again a win. Anyway we are supposed to be talking about Starmer and all his great polices he won't tax the richest but will bring privatisation into the NHS

The 2017 election was lost, lost - not wanted - no thanks

But the 2017 election result was one of the best. Then members of Corbyn staffers worked to stop a win along with mass media TV smears and Blair and Mandalson worked towards Jeremy Corbyn defeat. They could not let him win. Starmer is establishment the establishment is ok he won't rock the boat.

Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell gave Labour the worse general election defeat since 1935

tribunemag.co.uk/2023/05/how-starmer-abandoned-left-wing-economics

Grace Blakeley Tribune.
The IFS recently released the astonishing statistic that wages by 2026 would be over 40 percent lower than what they would have been had pre-crisis trends continued. In other words, living standards have essentially remained flat in the fifteen years since the financial crisis of 2008. The Resolution Foundation called this period of stagnation ‘completely unprecedented.’

In this context, it is no longer radical to argue that the UK economy requires deep, structural transformation. With the power to set taxes, levels of public spending, wages in the public sector, and regulation in the private sector, the British state is the only institution capable of enacting such a transformation. It follows that the British electorate is in favour of a radical shift in economic policy.

So why is the Labour Party refusing to provide such a shift?

Keir Starmer is undoubtedly a timid and conservative leader who shies away from the kind of radicalism championed by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, making him a deeply inappropriate person to have at the helm at this time of unprecedented economic chaos.

I agree with what you say Glorianny

Starmer has at least admitted that the NHS needs more money, which is good, even if he talks about "reform" and "efficiencies" .

Freya5 You said:
"he's had 40 years to do something, guess what he's done nothing but stir up hate."
I don't understand what you mean.
40 years to do what?
Could you give an example of his stirring up hate?

MayBee70

Boris Johnson lied in parliament about Starmers role in the Jimmy Saville case and was made to withdraw his remark. That to me is far far worse. And Rees Mogg filibustered to stop a law to protect vulnerable women being passed. But, hey they did it using long words in a posh accent so that’s ok. And most people don’t know about it and, if they did have conveniently forgotten about it.

Of course MayBee70, because the Tories take from the poor and give to Tory voters.

Casdon

Glorianny

Do you mean why don't I move away from the Labour Party Casdon?
Well I'm simply sticking by what Starmer said" Labour are a Broad Church and must remain a Broad Church."
So this www.independentlabour.org.uk/2023/04/03/a-tale-of-two-keirs-labour-its-broad-church/
Of course I doubt if Starmer still thinks that. He said it in 2017 and he's changed his mind about everything else.

I suspect your definitions of broad are just different Glorianny.

That would make sense Casdon but only makes me more worried as I suspect Starmer's definition of "socialism" might have more in common with those known as "National Socialists" than with any known Labour party definition. Especially given his disregard for the democratic process within the party.

Glorianny

Do you mean why don't I move away from the Labour Party Casdon?
Well I'm simply sticking by what Starmer said" Labour are a Broad Church and must remain a Broad Church."
So this www.independentlabour.org.uk/2023/04/03/a-tale-of-two-keirs-labour-its-broad-church/
Of course I doubt if Starmer still thinks that. He said it in 2017 and he's changed his mind about everything else.

I suspect your definitions of broad are just different Glorianny.

Anniebach

I listened to what Corbyn said not the media and watched what he did.

Me too. Not a very pleasant man, and he's had 40 years to do something, guess what he's done nothing but stir up hate. Labour party got rid, a liability.

Do you mean why don't I move away from the Labour Party Casdon?
Well I'm simply sticking by what Starmer said" Labour are a Broad Church and must remain a Broad Church."
So this www.independentlabour.org.uk/2023/04/03/a-tale-of-two-keirs-labour-its-broad-church/
Of course I doubt if Starmer still thinks that. He said it in 2017 and he's changed his mind about everything else.

Glorianny

Casdon

Look, we all know that you don’t like Starmer Glorianny for all the alleged wrongdoings you accuse him of. He isn’t going anywhere yet, and if he does the direction of the party has moved away from the left, his formula is working for the electorate, so he will be replaced with somebody of like mind. Why not move away from Labour to a party which is moving in the direction you want it to?

Well I had hoped for a reasoned and clear explanation of exactly why I was wrong, which set out the policies Starmer will pursue. Instead I get the usual "You don't like Starmer". I've explained clearly why I (and many others) don't trust him, so instead of telling me to get out, why not tell me what he stands for ? Possibly because no one really knows.

In summary, he stands for a moderate government which will attempt in the first term to pragmatically and within financial constraints return public services to the UK we had when Labour left power last time and to improve relationships with Europe and the rest of the world so that we are more economically viable going forward. I have no intention of listing every single issue, you know already although you’re being obtuse.
Are you going to answer my question next, that’s only fair?

The combination of Corbyn and McDonnell was fatal.

Corbyn lost elections because the press targeted and vilified him .

Yes I know the press favour the right, and any left leaning party has to deal with that. But the left wing of the Labour party - the Corbyn supporters - need to accept that Labour lost the last election because a majority of the voters did not want Corbyn as PM. It's as simple as that. I agreed with a lot of what Corbyn said, but he wasn't a leader.
Labour have to appeal to enough of the centre and centre- right to be in government, and that is what Starmer is trying to do. I want to be rid of this right wing disgraceful government, and we can only do that by ensuring Labour win the election.

Best wait until closer to the election, yes ?

Anniebach

Glorianny when did we have a far left government? blaming the press for every failure

No one is asking for a far left government Annie just a government which shows some commitment to Labour values.
A majority of people want to re-nationalise the railways.
A majority of people want the NHS to be properly funded
A majority of people want more social housing.
What does Starmer want? Who knows???

Casdon

Look, we all know that you don’t like Starmer Glorianny for all the alleged wrongdoings you accuse him of. He isn’t going anywhere yet, and if he does the direction of the party has moved away from the left, his formula is working for the electorate, so he will be replaced with somebody of like mind. Why not move away from Labour to a party which is moving in the direction you want it to?

Well I had hoped for a reasoned and clear explanation of exactly why I was wrong, which set out the policies Starmer will pursue. Instead I get the usual "You don't like Starmer". I've explained clearly why I (and many others) don't trust him, so instead of telling me to get out, why not tell me what he stands for ? Possibly because no one really knows.

Glorianny when did we have a far left government? blaming the press for every failure

Look, we all know that you don’t like Starmer Glorianny for all the alleged wrongdoings you accuse him of. He isn’t going anywhere yet, and if he does the direction of the party has moved away from the left, his formula is working for the electorate, so he will be replaced with somebody of like mind. Why not move away from Labour to a party which is moving in the direction you want it to?