Strictly Cheese Sandwiches

Snorkel

My brother and myself frequently ate sauce sandwiches. Red for him, brown for me, or even salad cream. No chance of cheese or ham. This was in the late sixties. My father was the only one working. His weekly wage was £22.00.

Same here. I once made myself sick on salad cream sandwiches and couldn’t touch the stuff for many years. 🤮. That was the sixties too.

Our neighbours had 8 kids and they lived on condensed milk sandwiches sprinkled with sugar. There were no benefits in those days.

Quite different now - Early years kids at school all now get free school meals, there are free breakfast clubs, there was talk of giving kids free meal vouchers in the school holidays too. There are also quite generous child benefits, top ups and help for people on low incomes.

Personally I would be ashamed to send a child out in the morning with no breakfast. An egg, some toast, a bowl of porridge costs pence. If they choose to spend their Child Benefit on stuff other than their kids, that’s their choice but I couldn’t do it.

When I was a young Mum money was very tight and I was often first in the PO queue on a Monday morning to get my child allowance but my kids never, ever left our house with an empty belly and we wouldn’t expect others to feed them.

I'm sorry for your troubles Saggi
Social care should absolutely be a priority, it will affect all of us at some point
Sending you all my good wishes

Saggi

My husband has gone into an Alzheimer’s home …permanently, because after six years of looking after him at home …and the previous 21 years looking after him post his stroke …I had my third stroke. His pensions kept our home going ….now I hand over a thousand pound a month to the council for his care…. so I live on cheese sandwiches and beans on toast . I can swear like a trooper , but I cannot yet find a word strong enough to explain away Ann Widdecombe .
If I was a believer ….I would wish her in hell!!

That is actually very cheap. My Mum’s care home costs were nearly £1,000 a WEEK!

M0nica

Baggs With all respect, have you really not been reading any of the information in the media about Ultra Processed Foods (UPF). It is not just that the foods are high in carbpohydrates, but high in highly refined and processed carbohydrated. A potato contains only one ingedient, dittto rice, cassava, or any other basic foodstuff.

A loaf of bread made the traditional way by a baker contains flour, yeast, salt and some water. Here is a list of ingredients from a popular mass-produced supermarket loaf
Wheat Flour [with Calcium, Iron, Niacin (B3) and Thiamin (B1)], Water, Yeast, Salt, Vegetable Oils (Sunflower, Rapeseed and Sustainable Palm in varying proportions), Soya Flour, Emulsifiers: E472e, E481; Preservative: Calcium Propionate; Flour Treatment Agent: Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)

This is why people living on UPFs are getting obese, it is all the other ingredients mentioned after flour, yeast and water, many of which no one has heard of, you cannot buy in the shops and their purpose is more to make the bread, easier and quicker to produce, make it last longer on the shelf and attracts mould because ot will go mouldy long before it has a chance to go stale.

I recommend: Ultra-Processed People Why Do We All Eat Stuff That Isn’t Food … and Why Can’t We Stop? by Chris van Tulleken

Makes a very thought provoking read, but I bet that Ann Widdecombe hasn’t read it!

Baggs With all respect, have you really not been reading any of the information in the media about Ultra Processed Foods (UPF). It is not just that the foods are high in carbpohydrates, but high in highly refined and processed carbohydrated. A potato contains only one ingedient, dittto rice, cassava, or any other basic foodstuff.

A loaf of bread made the traditional way by a baker contains flour, yeast, salt and some water. Here is a list of ingredients from a popular mass-produced supermarket loaf
Wheat Flour [with Calcium, Iron, Niacin (B3) and Thiamin (B1)], Water, Yeast, Salt, Vegetable Oils (Sunflower, Rapeseed and Sustainable Palm in varying proportions), Soya Flour, Emulsifiers: E472e, E481; Preservative: Calcium Propionate; Flour Treatment Agent: Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)

This is why people living on UPFs are getting obese, it is all the other ingredients mentioned after flour, yeast and water, many of which no one has heard of, you cannot buy in the shops and their purpose is more to make the bread, easier and quicker to produce, make it last longer on the shelf and attracts mould because ot will go mouldy long before it has a chance to go stale.

I recommend: Ultra-Processed People Why Do We All Eat Stuff That Isn’t Food … and Why Can’t We Stop? by Chris van Tulleken

Imagine just a few years ago having a discussion about whether eating cheese sandwiches was a luxury to be afforded by the few not the many
The depths of division and poverty that Conservative driven austerity has plunged us into, is indeed palpable
My daughter is a teacher and has taken cereal bars to school for her six year old pupils, for quite a few years, who have had no breakfast and possibly no dinner the night before
She now wraps up sandwiches for their lunch too. Of course, she can ill afford it herself and so we help with her efforts
This is not acceptable in the sixth richest country in the world and trying to somehow justify families going hungry today is beyond disgraceful
I despair

Baggs

Just watched the clip of that comment as I hadn't come across this until now. The clip includes a comment from another person that there are starving babies in the UK because their parents can't afford formula milk.

Starving? I do not believe this.

That aside, it is rather a ridiculous comment AW made, but I also think it was a ridiculous example. The chairperson said something about "all the ingredients of a cheese sandwich" which suggests to me that it wasn't just a plain cheese sandwich that was being talked about.

I don’t know the full story on this but I can’t see much wrong in what AW said. Cheese is massively expensive right now. I bought some mature cheddar yesterday and it was over £5. I think I heard on the news yesterday that cheese has gone up 25%.

There have been plenty of times in my life when we have had to cut back and use cheaper alternatives. You can make a very nice egg sandwich, tinned tuna is cheap, I bought some spicy chicken bits yesterday for £1.99 and they made us sandwiches yesterday and again today. I sometimes buy frozen chicken livers in a tub and defrost and make lush pate in the microwave. Very quick and easy and last time I bought some they cost about £1.

missdeke

Although I think the remark is inappropriate to say the least, but I must admit I thought she was referring to the modern habit of always buying sandwiches instead of making your own.

If this is so it changes the complexion of the whole issue. Funny that.

My husband has gone into an Alzheimer’s home …permanently, because after six years of looking after him at home …and the previous 21 years looking after him post his stroke …I had my third stroke. His pensions kept our home going ….now I hand over a thousand pound a month to the council for his care…. so I live on cheese sandwiches and beans on toast . I can swear like a trooper , but I cannot yet find a word strong enough to explain away Ann Widdecombe .
If I was a believer ….I would wish her in hell!!

I'm not sure we disagree about nutrition, M0nica.

Not all nutritionus foods are expensive.

When it's been argued that carrots, cabbage and onions are relatively cheap, the excuse is given that people can't cook them because they can't afford the cooking power or don't have anything to cook with. If this is true it's disastrous as well as being diffcult to understand. My paternal grandparents were both from large, poor families but they had cooking facilities.

How did Irish peasants whose staple was potatoes (high carb but jolly good food for all that) manage? They presumably cooked the potatoes they ate.

Throughout the world, people's staples are high carb foods but that hasn't made people fat until recently.

Etc, etc. On average, people have never been so well off in this country so what the hell is going on?

Depressing levels of misunderstanding, victim blaming and denial of reality for many, on this thread.

Baggs I never thought I would ever find myself disagreeing with you on anything profound

If they do, why isn't it in the news instead of us being told almost daily that 2/3 of adults in the UK are overwieght or obese?

The news tells us that the cheapest food, is the least nutritious food , Full of carbohydrates, fat and sugar and little else and it has always been so. Poor women in my childhood were often overweight because they lived on sandwiches made from bread, margarine and sugar, the sugar being there to mask the horrible flavour of 1950s nargarine. Now they are feeding on junk ready meals and take-aways.

I am sure you have read all the articles about UPFs, Ultra Processed Foods. 'Foods' made from ingredients that have been processed and denatured and then re-assembled, the cheapest possible ingredients made as attractive as possible and as cheap as possible. Obesity is often a sign of poverty and malnourishment.

I told my foster mother about a girl at school who only had bread marge and brown sugar sandwiches for lunch. She told me to collect a bag of apples from the tree and make sure she ate at least one and if she said she liked it then to give her the bagful to take home.

Quite HPQ, she really isn't a very nice person.

I find the everyone buys their sandwiches rather than making them now, a bit weird too. As an observation I would say those people are in the minority. None of us would have time at my work to leave during our breaks to go and fetch a sandwich. All people take a packed lunch or ready cooked meal to reheat.

montymops

Expectations are so high now. As others have said, being born in the early 40’s in London, during an air raid and growing up in the 40’s and 50’s , life was very different. No television, no mobile phones, hardly any toys, one Ideal boiler in the kitchen to heat the water, an open fire in the sitting room sometimes, ice on the inside of the bedroom windows in winter, no central heating of course, no sweets, lollies, ice cream etc. Meals were odd, revolting sheep’s stomach boiled , yuk- loads of spuds, swede which I hated, most foodstuffs were rationed. And yet, I remember, as that was life, being quite happy . We made our own games with friends in the road - that was fun. Therefore, I understand Ann Widdecombes remark, that if you can’t afford something, you don’t have it.

Oh for heaven's sake! You were happy because your parents sheltered you from the reality, as all parents do. I bet your Mother was tired and worn out from trying to make a meal from a piece of string and keep you children happy at the same time. It really irritates me when people harp on about what they see as the good old days, yeah; malnutrition, tooth decay, must have been a ball for your mother. Ann Widdecombe is an embittered, passed over politician who doesn't know what she is talking about. This is the same woman who approved female prisoners being chained to hospital beds while they gave birth; because we all know how easy it is to get up mid labour and make our escape.

Although I think the remark is inappropriate to say the least, but I must admit I thought she was referring to the modern habit of always buying sandwiches instead of making your own.

It reminds me of the 3 Yorkshire men sketch, "you had gravel!" But seriously I work in an advice centre and am saddened by the number of people particularly Carers who are choosing heating or eating. I never knew so many people using food banks

Sadly I teach children that arrive at school hungry having not eaten since their free school meal the previous day. And yes, children plural - around 10% of the children in my class.
One confided in me that the children in her family take it in turns to have food day and day about. I gathered that the mum doesn’t eat with them ever (I suspect she’s going without most days) but dad does eat with them because he’s got a heavy job (delivery driver) . Both on minimum wage I suspect and possibly zero hours contract. I know both parents work full time (actually mum has 3 part time jobs). Even so there’s not much left after the rising rent, fuel and council tax - we have one of the highest council tax and water rates in the country.
One problem here is the cost of food locally. There’s only ready meals and crisps in the newsagents. It’s a bus trip to the nearest food shop. That’s £2 minimum per person each way for the trip (on current subsidised fares), The bus goes and come back three times a day. Supermarket delivery is even more expensive and there’s a minimum spend. No food bank near here and no referral anyway if you’re in work.
Life is tough for some now, just as it’s always been tough for some and ok for others. Just with so much social media some of us are more aware of it.

To be perfectly honest, Baggs, I suspect you really don't have a clue.

Isn't she one of those Christian MPs too who comes out with things that Jesus wouldn't even think of thinking, let alone saying says myself, the heathen

Baggs

I also don't think anyone needs to be malnourished in the UK. Not all good food is expensive and one doesn't need a massive variety to stay well nourished. I suspect it is food ignorance* more than food poverty that causes a lot of problems.

* that's not to blame people. As is often said, kids (and some adults, it would seem) need to be taught the basics.

Errrmm ... a diet of pasta isn't exactly healthy!

Baggs

In answer to gs question, Yes.

MrB comes from a poor family and he says he was always hungry. I think home food was pretty basic but there was always enough. He was certainly thin. But he wasn't unfit or unhealthy. Teenage boys are meant to be thin.

He qualified for free school meals but didn't eat them because of the stigma. While I understand that and hope that problem has been addressed by now, he didn't actually have to go hungry.

So, given the much greater amount of help that people get nowadays – state and non-state – especially for children, I find some of the excessive angst such as what was shown in that AW clip is over the top.

What help do they get?

Are you aware of the level of benefit payments and the eligibility for free school meals? I'd hate to tell my grandmother how to suck eggs, if you already know.

www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/food-for-thought/

I also don't think anyone needs to be malnourished in the UK. Not all good food is expensive and one doesn't need a massive variety to stay well nourished. I suspect it is food ignorance* more than food poverty that causes a lot of problems.

* that's not to blame people. As is often said, kids (and some adults, it would seem) need to be taught the basics.

In answer to gs question, Yes.

MrB comes from a poor family and he says he was always hungry. I think home food was pretty basic but there was always enough. He was certainly thin. But he wasn't unfit or unhealthy. Teenage boys are meant to be thin.

He qualified for free school meals but didn't eat them because of the stigma. While I understand that and hope that problem has been addressed by now, he didn't actually have to go hungry.

So, given the much greater amount of help that people get nowadays – state and non-state – especially for children, I find some of the excessive angst such as what was shown in that AW clip is over the top.