New search for little Maddie

Presumably the Germans are.
I did see a few British police standing around, "observing" was the term used on the TV news.

I hope the Germans are paying for this investigation and not the British taxpayer.

They got a tip off I read.

On the news, the area around the reservoir looks enormous, yet the German police are being very specific in their search, limiting it to one particular corner. I'm no detective, but surely that means the police must have information of some sort?

Am guessing the caravan tragedy was entirely unpreventable if the parents were also there sleeping.
That’s the thing, that parents should always be there and tiny ones not left alone.
I will never change my mind on this btw so won’t continue answering questions.We don’t agree and that’s that.

Tragedies occur and accidents happen and we can’t keep our kids wrapped in cotton wool but some things are entirely preventable.

And the parents whose daughter was snatched from the caravan? The odds were very much against that, too. Did the fact that the McCanns were not behaving as you would have done somehow make it more likely that their child would be taken? No - it's a one in a million chance that this would happen in both cases (although I grant that it is quite likely that a three year old would wake up and be distressed).

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/policewomen-on-the-emotional-front-line-1-gemma-lawrence-case-1460633.html#

There can only be one worse thing than losing a child, and that is to lose a child and not know what has happened.
The McCanns, whether right or wrong in what they did, have had to live with that agony for years, and if it can be eased a little by finding the body of their daughter then surely the hope is that the Police succeed this time.

I agree also Maddyone

Doodledog

Oreo

No hanging judges at all, I see posters who think only of the child and what befell her.I agree that the parents have paid dearly and am sure we all can sympathise with them while at the same time some of us can see that leaving three tiny ones home alone in a strange apartment was a huge factor in this tragedy.

Yeah, obviously those who can empathise don't think about the child at all 🙄.

Of course it was the wrong thing to do, and of course it must haunt them every day of their lives. It's not something I would have done either, but not because I'd expect someone to break in and steal a child (that has happened in caravans with the window open and both parents asleep in the next room). I would have worried in case they woke up and were scared because we weren't there.

But there are things I did that I wish I hadn't, and things I wish I had done that I didn't. Nobody is perfect. I would never admit to anything on here though, as the judgement is palpable on so many threads, and it far outweighs any support or empathy for others.

Pretending that we kept our children safe because we did what we did (or didn't do) is like keeping a rabbit's foot in a pocket. We were lucky - the McCanns weren't.

No can’t give you that.
We were lucky? Not a matter of luck as a lot of parents just wouldn’t have done what they did.
Tragedies occur and accidents happen and we can’t keep our kids wrapped in cotton wool but some things are entirely preventable.

Doodledog

Well said, Maddie. A little compassion never goes amiss. This thread seems to be populated by hanging judges, and it's very unedifying.

Absolutely!

Oreo

No hanging judges at all, I see posters who think only of the child and what befell her.I agree that the parents have paid dearly and am sure we all can sympathise with them while at the same time some of us can see that leaving three tiny ones home alone in a strange apartment was a huge factor in this tragedy.

Yeah, obviously those who can empathise don't think about the child at all 🙄.

Of course it was the wrong thing to do, and of course it must haunt them every day of their lives. It's not something I would have done either, but not because I'd expect someone to break in and steal a child (that has happened in caravans with the window open and both parents asleep in the next room). I would have worried in case they woke up and were scared because we weren't there.

But there are things I did that I wish I hadn't, and things I wish I had done that I didn't. Nobody is perfect. I would never admit to anything on here though, as the judgement is palpable on so many threads, and it far outweighs any support or empathy for others.

Pretending that we kept our children safe because we did what we did (or didn't do) is like keeping a rabbit's foot in a pocket. We were lucky - the McCanns weren't.

No hanging judges at all, I see posters who think only of the child and what befell her.I agree that the parents have paid dearly and am sure we all can sympathise with them while at the same time some of us can see that leaving three tiny ones home alone in a strange apartment was a huge factor in this tragedy.

There but for the grace of God, go I.

I think most of us can feel empathy.

maddyone I agree

We have used hotel listening services

Well said, Maddie. A little compassion never goes amiss. This thread seems to be populated by hanging judges, and it's very unedifying.

Thank you Callistemon. I started this thread thinking that there would be a huge amount of sympathy from posters and also hope that something would be found to end the agony of these parents. I’m a bit surprised by the divided opinions on here. I didn’t expect people would still be blaming the parents after all this time.
None of us are perfect. We all make bad decisions sometimes. Most of the time we ‘get away with it’ but sometimes it goes catastrophically wrong. For my part, I feel immense sympathy for the whole McCann family, the parents who must live with their choices, their twins, the grandparents, and the wider family, aunties, uncles, nieces and nephews. I would be devastated if something like this happened to one of my grandchildren, and whilst I’d wonder why my child made that decision, my heart would break for my adult child.

There but for the grace of God, go I.

Yes. Absolutely.

Germanshepherdsmum

Nobody has suggested that a self catering holiday in the UK is morally superior to a holiday in Portugal. That’s ridiculous. The point is that you don’t leave your children alone in order to enjoy a nice grown up evening meal. You stay with them. That’s putting your children’s welfare above your own interests. It’s not being sanctimonious. It’s being a good, unselfish and responsible parent. Something all children deserve.

I agree GMS all our children have probably had accidents when they were with us, perhaps slipped our hand and had to be found in a shop, jumped off a wall and sprained something.
The thing about this is it was a premeditated act that had happened previously, where three young children under 4 were left in an unlocked strange room whilst the parents went for a meal.
As someone else has said they could have fallen out of bed slipped on the floor, vomited and choked.
You just don't leave any child unaccompanied in any circumstances whatever their colour or your occupation.
You are the adult and have to make the adult choices for their safety. They are too young to make them.
In this unfortunate case, it was the one where parental choice went wrong.

The rights and wrongs of leaving 3 children alone whilst eating/drinking with friends and checking them every now and then is being discussed, either with empathy or judgment and will always be the case...personally I'm just amazed that the apartment was unlocked. Unlocked. All evening.

They had used a key to go in and check previously but worried this may wake one of them as a bedroom or beds were near that door. A pertinent fact in the story.

The McCanns went on holiday with a group of friends so it’s perfectly understandable that they would wish to all have dinner together, but what is inexcusable is the fact that they all deemed it acceptable to leave their small children completely alone in their respective apartments.

The holiday complex would undoubtedly have been able to provide nannies or childminders for them all, yet every single one of the parents decided against that.

In addition, the McCanns left their patio door slightly open, presumably so as not to wake them.

I have grand-daughters the same age as Madeline would be now. When we heard the story of her disappearance we all thought "there but for the grace of God...."

I am sure, if we look back honestly, we can all remember times when we did not protect our children totally. We took risks and they survived.

For the McCann parents that was not the case and I cannot imagine how tortured they have been ever since about having taken that risk.

Their lives over the last sixteen years with their surviving children must have been blighted by their thoughts of Maddie.

It seems most likely that she is dead, and perhaps if there is proof of that it may enable her parents to move on emotionally and find some sort of closure.

Our children and grand children are all so precious. Losing them is about the worst thing we can ever imagine.

This loss has happened to quite a surprisingkly large number of my friends and aquaintancesl. Life can be very hard.

Also remembering that this terrible event of a missing child was over in Portugal which must have had some impact on the first hand search due to the language barrier and then the fact that many tourists came and went as they were on holiday.
If this had happened in the U.K almost certainly the police/detectives would have picked up some leads fairly soon.

I'm quite sure that the McCann's regret their decision to leave a 3 year old with 18month old twins in a room. I agree it doesn't help anyone to blame them.

However, would they have left the apartment with their passports and/or cash on a table?

The last holiday abroad we went en famille I slept in the same room as my daughter. Mr Lou was with my son in another room.

They were 17 and 23 respectively.

Casdon

Galaxy

Its safeguarding casdon. I dont think it's at all helpful to point any fingers at the McCanns. I also dont think its helpful in general to pretend that leaving very young children alone is a good plan.
I have done many things with regard to my children that werent ideal but pretending that those things were ok is not honest.
It's not ok to leave very young children alone, it's not ok to not put a seatbelt on children, it's not ok to not get medical treatment when needed. All examples of safeguarding issues with regard to children.

I agree with you Galaxy, I don’t condone leaving young children alone, and I didn’t with mine. What is sanctimonious is the implication that the McCanns are less deserving in some way because they made that error of judgement, and the implication that a self catering holiday in the UK is somehow morally superior to the choice they made of taking their children to Portugal is just wrong. I’m sure they love their children just as much as any other parent, and to be honest I find this thread really offensive for that reason.

They were still in the same complex, eating nearby, with regular patrols by the parents in the group.

The Portuguese police told lies as a cover up to avoid damaging the tourist industry.
The outside shutter was forced and the window open despite the discredited police officer denying this.

Casdon

What gets me about this thread is the amount of virtue signalling, and worse, the implication that people who left their children are ‘lesser’ and therefore somehow deserve for their child to be stolen from its bed in a locked apartment in the night. It is sanctimonious, there’s no doubt about it.

Yes, what a dreadful thread.

Not your fault, maddyone as I'm sure you started it with the best of intentions.