Foreign students…

Norah

M0nica

Norah we are talking families here. Would you separate a parent from their young children for 2 or 3 years because they are studying for a degree?

Not every overseas student can afford to fly home every vacation, or even once in a year. I have met a number of students, especially from poorer countries, who come here at the start of their degree and do not go home until it is complete. When parents are paying for their children's education, they can often only afford to educate one at a time, so younger children may be in their late 20s before they get their turn.

Your daughter was not married with children when she went to to the US. Would she have been happy to leave a child under 5 at home with father and grandparents while she studied overseas for a year?

Quibbling.

People in forces are away, often, what about them?

People train. People have off-site jobs for extended periods

She liked Cambridge, loved coming home. Not all schooling programs take 2 or 3 years, if one gets on with it, finishes fast.

What kind of course are you talking about? What do you mean by a "schooling program"?

I worked on student registration for several years. Some of the femals postgrads would not have been able to come without a husband in tow. Several arrived fully veiled and hung around in the background while their "husband" came forward to collect their ID. On more than one occasion we had to send them away to get a photo which showed the students face sufficient to identify them. One husband even argued the toss but it was in the regulations that the photo on the student ID had to make it possible to recognise the holder.

growstuff

fancythat

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

There are plenty of single foreign students.

So? There are plenty of potential students - especially females with spouses - who won't be able to study in the UK, so they're missing out, as are the UK universities.

growstuff Just speaking in general I think really, do you believe that everything in the Uk should be available for everyone in every other country?

Ask university vice chancellors what they think about the money.

Your question is irrelevant because we're not talking here about everything being available for everyone.

In which case I will start a thread about that at some point.

Good show!

People in forces are away, often, what about them?

Yes, they are.
I remember civilians being astonished that fathers in the Forces were not flown home when their wives were about to give birth 😁

(I think Prince Andrew might have been but he was the only one.)

growstuff What kind of course are you talking about?

One year master's in history. Non research based. Easy for her.

Norah

growstuff What kind of course are you talking about?

One year master's in history. Non research based. Easy for her.

I was confused when you mentioned "schooling programs" and being less than 2-3 years. I've never heard the term "schooling programs" mentioned in a UK context.

I sincerely hope it wasn't a solitary experience for her.

When my daughter did her history masters and spent time abroad as an Erasmus student, she most certainly wasn't solitary and the friends she made then are still friends. It was the same for my partner, who spent time in the US, Norway and Germany as part of his academic journey. He's still in contact with some of them 30-40 years later and collaborates on projects.

growstuff

Norah

growstuff What kind of course are you talking about?

One year master's in history. Non research based. Easy for her.

I was confused when you mentioned "schooling programs" and being less than 2-3 years. I've never heard the term "schooling programs" mentioned in a UK context.

I sincerely hope it wasn't a solitary experience for her.

When my daughter did her history masters and spent time abroad as an Erasmus student, she most certainly wasn't solitary and the friends she made then are still friends. It was the same for my partner, who spent time in the US, Norway and Germany as part of his academic journey. He's still in contact with some of them 30-40 years later and collaborates on projects.

She was in USA -Cambridge, MA (Boston area). She went alone. She enjoyed her studies. Spent hols home with us or her Uncle in NYC.

This is just window dressing to make it look as if they are controlling immigration. Why on earth turn away overseas students with their massive fees, their spending, their expertise, their education? Also, as most of them are here for an academic year, they don't even impact the immigration figures, but let's not allow this fact to stop all the 'let them come alone' welcome speeches. You do realise that by doing this, the biggest group impacted are likely to be female graduates from stricter societies, Muslim countries etc? So much for the sisterhood!

Norah - it's so much easier to travel the world to follow dreams/study if you are single.

You are totally free, can survive on nothing much - and life is generally good.

NotSpaghetti

Norah - it's so much easier to travel the world to follow dreams/study if you are single.

You are totally free, can survive on nothing much - and life is generally good.

Indeed.

Thus our daughter enjoyed her time in master's schooling!

Wedding soon, I'd fly to USA myself to avoid bedlam.

But this thread is about foreign students bringing dependents with them.

NotSpaghetti

But this thread is about foreign students bringing dependents with them.

Indeed.

I admit finding that unnecessary, our daughter was an example.

OK. I see that. Was a bit confused. I thought you were trying to say it was better to be alone and leave family behind.

HousePlantQueen

This is just window dressing to make it look as if they are controlling immigration. Why on earth turn away overseas students with their massive fees, their spending, their expertise, their education? Also, as most of them are here for an academic year, they don't even impact the immigration figures, but let's not allow this fact to stop all the 'let them come alone' welcome speeches. You do realise that by doing this, the biggest group impacted are likely to be female graduates from stricter societies, Muslim countries etc? So much for the sisterhood!

I’m not sure taxpayers are too bothered about the sisterhood.

people in the forces are sometimes away, but not for years at a time, except in wartime.

I was an army brat. Yes, my father was sometimes away, but only for a few months. Usually wherever he went, we went too. During the Korean War he was based in Hong Kong because he worked in logistics - and we all went with him. the same in Malaya during the Emergency and Germany during the Cold War

We have close friends in the navy, 2 generations on the nuclear subs. Again, away for 3 or 4 months, then home for the same period.

Students and their immediate families who come over here build up links and connections here that over a life time in their own country engenders a positive attitude to Britain and all we do, plus the shared background and common language can be worth billions of £ to this country in trade and support on the international stage.

While they are in this country families will spend far more money in this country than one student on their own. They boost the economy.

Germanshepherdsmum

HousePlantQueen

This is just window dressing to make it look as if they are controlling immigration. Why on earth turn away overseas students with their massive fees, their spending, their expertise, their education? Also, as most of them are here for an academic year, they don't even impact the immigration figures, but let's not allow this fact to stop all the 'let them come alone' welcome speeches. You do realise that by doing this, the biggest group impacted are likely to be female graduates from stricter societies, Muslim countries etc? So much for the sisterhood!

I’m not sure taxpayers are too bothered about the sisterhood.

Why should taxpayers be bothered?

Foreign students pay three times the fees that home students do. If they bring dependants, they have to have a minimum amount of money available and pay an NHS surcharge, even if the don't need healthcare.

M0nica

people in the forces are sometimes away, but not for years at a time, except in wartime.

I was an army brat. Yes, my father was sometimes away, but only for a few months. Usually wherever he went, we went too. During the Korean War he was based in Hong Kong because he worked in logistics - and we all went with him. the same in Malaya during the Emergency and Germany during the Cold War

We have close friends in the navy, 2 generations on the nuclear subs. Again, away for 3 or 4 months, then home for the same period.

And no contact at all for those 3 or 4 months. None.

RN commissions used to be 2½ years then reduced to a year away. Family did not see them during the time they were away. It may be shorter now.

Usually wherever he went, we went too
Yes, quite different. I have friends who were Army wives. They went, with their family, to live on Army bases.

Naval wives and children can't travel on ships or submarines 🙂

Also, as most of them are here for an academic year
And might decide to stay and join our workforce.

But on the nuckear proramme there are two crews for each submarine and each crew supports the offshore crews family while they are away.

A first degree takes 3 years. Even in the navy, in modern times separations are not that long.

Most married students are postgrads on shorter courses I believe.

I teach postgrads, most of whom are international students. It’s a one-year taught course.

The vast majority go home at the end (I’ve known far more undergrads stay in the UK after graduating). They tend to live with and amongst other people from the same culture, make very little effort to mix with UK students and base the research for their dissertations on their own country - partly for language reasons and partly because the culture is very different and a one-year course doesn’t give them long enough to get to properly understand the differences between that and the UK. They tend to be very wealthy and spend a lot of money while they are here - travelling around the UK and Europe and on fashion items that I could never afford in a million years. A significant number meet their future spouses here (from their own culture) and I think that for a lot of them that and the freer social life is as important as the degree. I doubt that many of the women will have careers anyway.

Making it more difficult for them to come here would just mean they would go elsewhere for a similar experience. The US, probably, or maybe Australia. A UK degree is still seen as valuable (I work in a Russell Group university) but that status is declining since Brexit has cut a lot of ties in research collaboration.

There will be no change for those arriving without dependants.