Cancel Culture or Free Speech

Thanks, NanaDana, Dickens, Doodledog and Galaxy, for some real sense, though it will fall on stony ground.

What are the statistics on that galaxy?

What percentage of women are devoting a great deal of time to this on chat forums?

Have you visited MN lately .

Idk

I don't think that the whole situation matters much to most people

There certainly aren't many women willing to spend all day every day for weeks at a time saying the same thing over and over to usually 2 or 3 people

I regard the biological argument as a complete irrelevancy since no one can or has explained to me how it applies to my everyday life. But if you can explain to me how it will be done I'm quite willing to look at the question again.

I read your posts with respect, Glorianny, as I really do want to learn but this statement is a bit strange. Just about every time you visit a Dr, your biological sex will be taken into account or every month you ovulate when you were younger or reaching menopause, etc, etc, assuming you are a natal female.. Your biology does have a relevancy whether you like it or not (and many times I haven't liked it) and there is no way really to get around it.

Thank you Doodledog for your comments about right wing ideology; so many unnecessary comments about right wing / left wing.

Thank you , Mollygo for the Emily Van Platen poem.
Common sense.

Yes that's an important point as well. Most of the people who are raising concerns arent gender critical feminists. Feminism particularly feminism which prioritises the needs of women isnt actually that popular .
Those who have raised concerns are those who are interested in free speech, whistleblowers around child safeguarding, and even just members of the labour party who dont want to throw away votes by saying women can have a penis.

So I think it's a nonsense to place a poster in a political camp.

I couldn't agree more. Left and Right are descriptors of viewpoints at ends of a spectrum, and there are authoritarians at both ends of that. It is perfectly possible for someone to believe in, say, a free market economy (right) but also in a welfare state (left). Or, for that matter, a managed economy with less of a safety net. And many more things that those without an understanding of human complexity would see as contradictions. It's akin to the 'champagne socialists are hypocrites' view of politics. Simplistic and reductive.

And in any case, the 'trans debate' does not sit on the Left/Right spectrum, and never has.

Glorianny

eazybee

Right wing ideology needs to create us and them.

By identifying people as left wing and right wing that is precisely what you are doing, Glorianny, putting people into boxes.

No I simply posted the ideology. If you wish to identify with one of these it is entirely up to you.

No I simply posted the ideology. If you wish to identify with one of these it is entirely up to you.

I honestly think many of us are quite aware of both Right and Left ideology - and the extremes of both.

Holding a particular viewpoint that might coincide with those of either one or the other does not automatically align any of us with either party... and certainly not with those on the extreme ends.

Neither does holding a view about one aspect of trans gender matters which conflicts with the views held by the trans gender community (or some of them) automatically mean that we belong to the so-called "gender critical".

And neither Right nor Left are homogenous as there are conflicting opinions within both parties... the different factions within the current Tory party are witness to that, as is the continuing argy-bargy within the Labour party regarding Starmer's version of what the Labour party stands for, and the Corbynites' (so-called) version.

So I think it's a nonsense to place a poster in a political camp.

Glorianny says : "I regard the biological argument as a complete irrelevancy since no one can or has explained to me how it applies to my everyday life. But if you can explain to me how it will be done I'm quite willing to look at the question again."
So the biological argument is irrelevant in the determination of sex, and doesn't "have any relevance to her everyday life". Well, as "Bones" used to say in Star Trek.. "It may be life, Jim.. but not as we know it". The rejection and denial of basic natural laws just about sums up how pointless it is to continue this discussion with this particular contributor, who appears to have a point of view which can conveniently ignore any scientific fact which contradicts her own, essentially ill-defined point of view. Ill-defined, as, true to form, she keeps moving those goalposts every time those arguing against her look like scoring again... and again... and again. I won't be responding to any further of her submissions, as frankly, it's all getting just a bit silly... again.

I wanna be a boy mamma
So I can do the things boys do
Ok so be a boy my dear
There ain’t nobody stopping you.

I’ve tried it being a boy, mamma
Why did you let me go ahead
It isn’t everything you led me to believe
I should have stayed a girl instead.

I couldn’t tell you what to do, honey
You said I couldn’t raise a kid
I let you do what others told you could be true.
You’re saying they lied? Well, yes they did.

Emily VanPlaten.

2.5% of trans youth (children), after being allowed to socially transition chose to detransition in a 5 year study

A small percentage realised they were non binary, 2.5% chose to detransition.

No medical intervention given

www.researchgate.net/publication/360373314_Gender_Identity_5_Years_After_Social_Transition

VioletSky

www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/

That bastion of impartiality, gendergp? The same company that employs ex CEO of Mermaids Susie Green, who thought she should overrule real GPs to refer their patients to the Tavistock. The Tavistock that has now been revealed to have hundreds of pages of emails between them and Mermaids which it was sworn didn't exist. That gendergp is your trusted source? The group that thinks sterilising children is the way to go. Especially when it brings in lots of filthy lucre. The pharmaceutical companies just love transitioners who will need lifelong medication, so are happy to fund groups promoting such. Puberty blockers administered at Tanner stage 2 mean the individual will likely never achieve orgasm, and this is according to Marcie Bowers, a leading transwoman gender surgeon in USA. You really think 12 year olds are competent to wave aside sexual function and fertility for the rest of their lives? It's interesting how many of the advocates for child transition actually did their own transition in advanced adulthood and after they had already procreated....

Actually, when someone wasn’t who they are now, they were supporting the rights of TW to say they were women even when a female attendant had been asked for for an intimate examination.
The same arguments about how can you tell were used then.

It puzzled me back then, how anyone could support males dishonesty to the detriment of females on the grounds that you can’t tell.
It still puzzles me how male dishonesty is so acceptable to some females, even though they would deny that they accepted dishonesty in any other circumstances.

If you want to see fussing you might want to look at the description of sport being segregated by sex as furthering a genocide.

You were asking for ways it could work as if identifying peoples sex was some impossible dream..
I am not fussing, just continuing supporting the legal challenges that make sure this happens, women were sexually assaulted and God knows how many women lost sporting places etc along the way, but yes I agree there has been great progress in returning organisations to segregation by sex.

Galaxy

You were saying it wasnt possible to segregate by sex. I was saying in prisons hospitals etc it is perfectly possible to do that. You were saying you had no idea how sex segregation was going to work. It is being implemented in prisons sports etc. The legal case with regard to single sex refuges hasnt happened yet.

And it is being done, so what's the fuss about?
Sex segregation in everyday life which some are telling me is necessary isn't possible. So what is the issue?

knows!!

nobody but you know their right mind!

Glorianny

eazybee

Right wing ideology needs to create us and them.

By identifying people as left wing and right wing that is precisely what you are doing, Glorianny, putting people into boxes.

No I simply posted the ideology. If you wish to identify with one of these it is entirely up to you.

That's not strictly true, is it? You constantly claim that resistance to the idea that TWAW is part of a right wing plot, often with Christianity thrown in, with the suggestion that anyone who disagrees is party to it.

You have even said that people who say they are left wing are often to the right of Tony Blair, as though nobody buy you knows there right mind. I don't know if you realise quite how condescending your posts are, or how superior you seem to see yourself. People can disagree with you without it meaning that they are stupid, you know?

You were saying it wasnt possible to segregate by sex. I was saying in prisons hospitals etc it is perfectly possible to do that. You were saying you had no idea how sex segregation was going to work. It is being implemented in prisons sports etc. The legal case with regard to single sex refuges hasnt happened yet.

Quichette

What gender is a person with XXy chromosomes? X0? XXX? Xyy? These are all known genetic variations in humans. They are not as rare as one might think. There are also known differences in brain structures between males and females. What happens when a biological male or female has brain structures generally found in the opposite sex? It is more complex than makes most of us comfortable, I think.

Doesn’t make me uncomfortable. Whenever these are mentioned it’s because someone is desperate to prove you can change sex. You can’t.
There are males and females.
Usually differences in brains are explained by males thinking theirs are better.
Now if you’re going to explain that these people with different chromosome variations spend their lives trying to change sex, that would be interesting.
Otherwise the relevance of this to the cancel culture aimed at females by certain trans and TRA eludes me.

eazybee

^Right wing ideology needs to create us and them.^

By identifying people as left wing and right wing that is precisely what you are doing, Glorianny, putting people into boxes.

No I simply posted the ideology. If you wish to identify with one of these it is entirely up to you.

Galaxy

Sports hospitals prisons and refuges can be segregated by sex very easily.

Hospitals in most cases are segregated, although as I have previously stated keeping some wards specifically for men would be unworkable in wards dealing with older patients, as the much larger numbers of older women necessitate more beds being available for women.
Prisons are mostly segregated. The problem of trans people is a fairly recent one which is being dealt with.
You know my views on the racism in women's sport
Refuges are strictly monitored and all people entering them are subjected to risk assessments. This was instituted originally because of the numbers of abusive women gaining access and bullying other women. The limited number of transwomen means anyway that very few of them are even trying to enter refuges.

Quichette if you mean people with a dsd they are all either Male or female.