Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster

The EU has been enormously strengthened by Brexit in fact.

The UK now has the situation that if it wants to export to the EU, they will have to abide by EU rules on quality, standards, sizing, working conditions, husbandry conditions and safety. On the other hand, it now is accepting anything from anywhere, without checks at all. On safety, on husbandry and use of antibiotics and dangerous chemicals, etc, etc, etc. We have no idea what is coming in at the moment- as checks have not been implemented due to shortages and cost of living crisis. If the EU decides that for chocolate to be called chocolate, it has to have a garanteed percentage of cocoa mass, for instance, then the UK has to produce chocolate that adheres to those standards, and not Hersheys sugar and palm oil mix! Or not export at all. Same for all goods. The UK cannot force the EU to accept to import dangerous or sub-quality products, and fair enough. The UK currently accepts just anything ... without any checks. Taking back control!

Unless you buy from a trusted farmer locally- then you have no idea what you are eating currently.

The 6 original members were formed to avoid competition between different states which had caused conflict for centuries and 2 world wars. It was so popular that all the neighbouring states wanted to be involved, some as full members some as associates. There has been no conflict between members since it was set up, it was natural to have a common set of laws and values while keeping their own national government and identity.
Only the UK thought life would be better outside but that was based on the idea that we could pick and choose which parts suited us.

Freya5

This reminds me so much of the Empire strikes back, and federation of three trying to enforce their rules, it is not just about trade though is it. Its about more of a federation , and the rules will be made by the three. All becoming the same under the star flag. As you can see I don't have much trust in their "trade" only.

Well now we're not part of the "federation" are we... what can you do now that you couldn't do when we were part of it?

Many on here are saying that their lives have gone on as before and they've not noticed anything that has had any impact so they're just getting on with it and wish that we Remainers would do the same.

The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999

Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%. (source: Full-Fact)

Which of those EU rules blighted your life so?

This reminds me so much of the Empire strikes back, and federation of three trying to enforce their rules,

It's worrying that leave voters cannot distinguish fact from fantasy. Star Wars wasn't a metaphor for the EU.

Dickens

Saetana

Dickens

Louella12

Fleur, I don't know a soul who is bothered about Brexit. It's done. What is this vast majority you talk of? Ridiculous. Brexit is not on most people's minds. We're getting on with life. Why don't you take up a note productive hobby? We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

How rude!

In fact, the decision whether or not "we" ever go back in might be taken decades down the line by following generations - when many of us will no longer be around to have a say.

And, as with most political decisions, it will largely be based on the economic climate at that time - if the then government of the day consider it to be in our interests (or theirs) then there is a distinct possibility the country will rejoin.

You honestly think the EU will still exists in "decades"? I do not, the European Project is failing, they are constantly arguing amongst themselves. The main problem with the EU is they have tried to bring together too many disparate countries - countries such as Italy, Greece Spain et al have little in common with Eastern European countries such as Poland, Hungary et al - and then of course we have France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands etc. There are three distinct groups of countries in the EU and it is not a comfortable relationship - especially for those who are actually in the Eurozone. It worked well when it was truly a "common market" - since more and more political integration has been involved, it is failing.

Yes, I do think the EU will still exist.

I think it will change / morph as such institutions do over time, partly because of the reasons you mention. The EU today is not the EU we voted for in 1975.

Without going into long and tedious explanations / theories, in a nutshell I think it will still be in existence because Trade is one of the primary functions of a nation, and those nations living next door to each other, despite all the political and cultural fall-outs, will not want to obliterate all the benefits of trading with each other when it is made so easy to do so.

An over-simplified explanation, but I've got a kitchen full of dirty dishes and a messy house to clear up before bedtime!

I think pragmatism will nearly always rule over nationalism.

This reminds me so much of the Empire strikes back, and federation of three trying to enforce their rules, it is not just about trade though is it. Its about more of a federation , and the rules will be made by the three. All becoming the same under the star flag. As you can see I don't have much trust in their "trade" only.

It worked well when it was truly a "common market"

But it never was just a 'common market'. It was expressly intended as a device to avoid future war between European countries by making the member states interdependent and restricting exclusive access to the wherewithal to make armaments.

It also had a political dimension from the start as part of its objectives was to prevent the re-emergence of totalitarian regimes.

Those who have fallen for the 'it was just a common market' nonsense have been sadly misled.

Wise words, Dickens.

Saetana

Dickens

Louella12

Fleur, I don't know a soul who is bothered about Brexit. It's done. What is this vast majority you talk of? Ridiculous. Brexit is not on most people's minds. We're getting on with life. Why don't you take up a note productive hobby? We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

How rude!

In fact, the decision whether or not "we" ever go back in might be taken decades down the line by following generations - when many of us will no longer be around to have a say.

And, as with most political decisions, it will largely be based on the economic climate at that time - if the then government of the day consider it to be in our interests (or theirs) then there is a distinct possibility the country will rejoin.

You honestly think the EU will still exists in "decades"? I do not, the European Project is failing, they are constantly arguing amongst themselves. The main problem with the EU is they have tried to bring together too many disparate countries - countries such as Italy, Greece Spain et al have little in common with Eastern European countries such as Poland, Hungary et al - and then of course we have France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands etc. There are three distinct groups of countries in the EU and it is not a comfortable relationship - especially for those who are actually in the Eurozone. It worked well when it was truly a "common market" - since more and more political integration has been involved, it is failing.

Yes, I do think the EU will still exist.

I think it will change / morph as such institutions do over time, partly because of the reasons you mention. The EU today is not the EU we voted for in 1975.

Without going into long and tedious explanations / theories, in a nutshell I think it will still be in existence because Trade is one of the primary functions of a nation, and those nations living next door to each other, despite all the political and cultural fall-outs, will not want to obliterate all the benefits of trading with each other when it is made so easy to do so.

An over-simplified explanation, but I've got a kitchen full of dirty dishes and a messy house to clear up before bedtime!

I think pragmatism will nearly always rule over nationalism.

😁

I can't really claim the credit - it was another poster.

And before that, of course, Gwynnie!
Hers was just as puzzling as Brexit!

Callistemon21

Callistemon21

Was there any need to consciously uncouple from he Customs Union?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/02/dont-be-misled-leaving-the-single-market-and-customs-union-was-a-tory-decision

(3)

I think, in future, I shall now refer to Brexit as our Conscious Uncoupling from the EU.

The search facility on GN is not great.

Fleurpepper

I am surprised, as you commented on so many occasions.

But if you have missed it here, I am sure you have read it all in many other places. It is all very well documented.

Do you have any good, reliable links with balanced views please?

Well how about linking to those comments here. Or possibly repeating them.
It’s all very well to say dismissively “Oh I’ve said that elsewhere”
Sounds suspiciously like ducking the issue.

I am surprised, as you commented on so many occasions.

But if you have missed it here, I am sure you have read it all in many other places. It is all very well documented.

Because this has been explained in many threads before- again and again.

But not on here
I may have missed them.

specki4eyes

Standing right beside you Fleurpepper. Keep going. Those who yawn and bully you to shut up are usually those who voted for Brexit and who now secretly feel guilty about how they have helped to turn Great Britain into Little Britain, bobbing about vulnerable and alone on rough and chilly seas. Winston Churchill must be turning in his grave after he fought so bravely for a united Europe.

Funny how that huge weekly amount promised for the NHS never materialised, nor the massive trade deals with the US, nor the reductions in illegal immigrants..etc etc....
Watch Question Time next Thursday..the audience will be made up entirely of those who voted Leave. It will be a bunfight, but very interesting.

The NHS has actually had MORE than an extra 350 million pounds a week - and its still a mess - so that bit certainly materialised, albeit with a bit of help from covid. I agree with you on the immigration issue though - the current situation is a complete shambles.

Dickens

Louella12

Fleur, I don't know a soul who is bothered about Brexit. It's done. What is this vast majority you talk of? Ridiculous. Brexit is not on most people's minds. We're getting on with life. Why don't you take up a note productive hobby? We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

We're not going back into the EU. Suck it up .

How rude!

In fact, the decision whether or not "we" ever go back in might be taken decades down the line by following generations - when many of us will no longer be around to have a say.

And, as with most political decisions, it will largely be based on the economic climate at that time - if the then government of the day consider it to be in our interests (or theirs) then there is a distinct possibility the country will rejoin.

You honestly think the EU will still exists in "decades"? I do not, the European Project is failing, they are constantly arguing amongst themselves. The main problem with the EU is they have tried to bring together too many disparate countries - countries such as Italy, Greece Spain et al have little in common with Eastern European countries such as Poland, Hungary et al - and then of course we have France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands etc. There are three distinct groups of countries in the EU and it is not a comfortable relationship - especially for those who are actually in the Eurozone. It worked well when it was truly a "common market" - since more and more political integration has been involved, it is failing.

Callistemon21

Perhaps if we went right back to the beginning of the thread and the evidence was listed, it could be discussed point by point?
Adverse, positive, no difference?

Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster (407 Posts)
Add comment | Report | Private message | QuoteFleurpepper Sat 10-Jun-23 16:56:06
Is there anyone here on GN still prepared to stand and say that it is not- and give evidence to the effect?

Add comment | Report | Private message | QuoteHetty58 Sat 10-Jun-23 17:07:57
Fleurpepper, I'm bored to the back teeth with all these Brexit posts. Try giving evidence - a clear concise (and brief, FGS) list of examples - directly related to Brexit - and maybe somebody will reply.

Add comment | Report | Private message | QuoteFleurpepper Sat 10-Jun-23 17:10:06
Oh I can assure you we are sick to the back teeth of the disaster that Brexit is. The evidence is all there for all to see, no need for me to repeat it. And it has been there right from the start too.

The evidence is all there for all to see, no need for me to repeat it.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you did as not everyone seems to find it a disaster apparently.

One or two posters have pointed out how it has affected them, thank you for that.

Because this has been explained in many threads before- again and again.

Unlike the list of Brexit benefits which has been asked for so many times, and which has never ever received any reply, at least none that made any sense.

Katie59, there was indeed a real option to have a Norway/Swiss style deal- but it would have had to include Free Movement. There was NO negotiating on that, ever.

Oreo

I think you put too much importance on Boris taking a hike as well.

Well, that is a fair comment. I disagree- and that is fine.

Disagreeing is never a problem. Making personal attacks, trying to shut people down, and in a very personal, rude and often worse manner, is not.

I do believe that Johnson's demise is a huge factor highlighting the lies and dishonesty that have taken place re his Brexit.

For all those who continue to knock the BBC for a perceived bias (in both directions) I suggest that you watch HIGNFY and/or listen to the News Quiz. You might then have a slight change of mind.

Going back to the Swiss, they have been a real pain to the EU for many years, they have been given lots of concessions and time deadlines but have faced them all down.

There was no way the EU was going to get into the same tangle with the UK, so they gave us nothing, it was their rules all the way. We could have accepted their rules on customs and several other areas, we chose not to.

That's why I was interested to know if the Swiss still chuntered on about their first extremely close referendum and the subsequent one where they voted decisively NOT to join the EU.

Are they happy with the status quo?
How did they achieve their agreements with the EU?
Can we do that?
This should have quoted, but didn't. Oops
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For there to be a discussion it is helpful -nay, essential- for different sides to acknowledge questions from each other (like this one) and offer a reply.

Just one catastrophising ego trip.