Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster

Perhaps if we went right back to the beginning of the thread and the evidence was listed, it could be discussed point by point?
Adverse, positive, no difference?

Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster (407 Posts)
Add comment | Report | Private message | QuoteFleurpepper Sat 10-Jun-23 16:56:06
Is there anyone here on GN still prepared to stand and say that it is not- and give evidence to the effect?

Add comment | Report | Private message | QuoteHetty58 Sat 10-Jun-23 17:07:57
Fleurpepper, I'm bored to the back teeth with all these Brexit posts. Try giving evidence - a clear concise (and brief, FGS) list of examples - directly related to Brexit - and maybe somebody will reply.

Add comment | Report | Private message | QuoteFleurpepper Sat 10-Jun-23 17:10:06
Oh I can assure you we are sick to the back teeth of the disaster that Brexit is. The evidence is all there for all to see, no need for me to repeat it. And it has been there right from the start too.

The evidence is all there for all to see, no need for me to repeat it.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you did as not everyone seems to find it a disaster apparently.

One or two posters have pointed out how it has affected them, thank you for that.

I have tried to be perfectly polite whilst stating my views and asking questions which I thought were pertinent to the situation. .

😀
I'm not bad at Maths, it is just that the quotes aren't posting.
Poor Wifi

Callistemon21

Callistemon21

Was there any need to consciously uncouple from he Customs Union?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/02/dont-be-misled-leaving-the-single-market-and-customs-union-was-a-tory-decision

(3)

Sorry - (4)
The last one hadn't posted.

Callistemon21

Was there any need to consciously uncouple from he Customs Union?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/02/dont-be-misled-leaving-the-single-market-and-customs-union-was-a-tory-decision

(3)

I really don't understand what you wanted us to discuss Fleurpepper. You have failed to notice that I have certainly taken the Brexit thread in different directions, one or two a bit lightheartedly and cheekily! But always with examples of my own experience.
I have no idea either what you mean about all the "kicking the player and not the ball lark," but if you find anything that I have alluded to in your life unwelcome, then please enlighten me.

Callistemon21

Hilarybee

A 13 page thread! On Brexit. Brexit still arouses strong and deep feelings

That's why I was interested to know if the Swiss still chuntered on about their first extremely close referendum and the subsequent one where they voted decisively NOT to join the EU.

Are they happy with the status quo?
How did they achieve their agreements with the EU?
Can we do that?

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Callistemon21

Dinahmo

Fleurpepper

MerylStreep

Freya5
I’ve always believed the eu will fall apart. This will come about through the collapse of the euro. This has been spoken about for many years ( since its inception)

www.reuters.com/plus/could-the-euro-collapse#

the only value which has fallen through the floor is Sterling.

Yes, it is lovely where I am currently, fancy that, and I have just returned from Italy- it was very lovely too.

When we moved here 1 £ was worth x 2.50 - and it is now just about over x 1 - a loss of about 60% (and 60% of our pensionable income too).

We did not move for it to be lovely, but to look after my very elderly parents, now both gone. Why not return to the UK then, some will ask. But I do think you know the answer! The country has changed beyond recognition and at our age, with our medical history, relying on the NHS is NOT a viable option.

My guess is the States. I can remember when £1 bought US$2.4 for many years. (no need to reply)

Question for Fleurpepper

In a 1992 referendum Swiss voters rejected membership of the European Economic Area, which had been seen as a stepping stone on the way to membership of the European Union (EU).[4] Polls consistently showed that the Swiss did not want to join the European Union, which was confirmed in a 2001 referendum where over 75% voted against membership

Are the Swiss still arguing amongst themselves about the close result of the very close referendum they held in 1992 and a later more decisive referendum rejecting EU membership?

Is it a constant bone of contention in Switzerland or did they get up, dust themselves down and get on with making the best of the situation?
Which is what, I believe, we should be doing and I hope Sunak will do now Johnson has left politics 🤞

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Callistemon21

^Some Remainers seem to assume that those who voted to leave were just a bit thick and easily taken in by the lies undoubtedly spread by Boris and his ilk. I’d actually put the blame for the whole fiasco squarely on Cameron, with a huge dollop reserved for those who couldn’t be bothered to turn out, but that’s a post for another day. The Leave voters were perfectly entitled to their opinions^.

Maggiemaybe
Yes, I've been ashamed to read some posts on here as I have friends who voted to leave and I know full well that they are well-educated people and thought it through very carefully.

What I'd like to know is do those who think those who voted Brexit are a bit thick think the same about the populations of those countries which refused to join the EU eg Iceland, Norway, Switzerland.

When Switzerland held a referendum on whether or not to join the EEA it was rejected by 50.3% of the voters and eventually an application for full EU membership was withdrawn.
Does this work well, does anyone know?
Or do the Swiss still argue endlessly about this?

Gordon Brown was allegedly reluctant to sign the Lisbon Treaty (Milibn signed it) and perhaps Cameron's big mistake was not to offer a third alternative on the voting slip; withdraw from full membership but retain other agreements.
Ireland held more than one referendum on the Lisbon Treaty until the accepted result was obtained.

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Callistemon21

Dickens

Kandinsky

As we try to recover from the hammer blows of brexit

I haven’t noticed a single difference tbh.
I think that’s true for most people.

Which rather begs the question... why did we leave?

It was meant to make a difference - isn't that why people voted for it?

Which, if it makes no difference if we're in or out, rather begs the question - is there any point to it?

I did think there was but 🤔

Question 1

Well, you could have decided to add reasonable points for discussion, and help the thread go in a completely different direction. Now that would have been interesting indeed

You obviously haven't read my posts Fleurpepper! 😁
Although you did answer one which contained questions, thank you.

I realise that there are a lot of posts to plough through.

Foxygloves

Callistemon21

This edition, I understand, has an audience solely of people who voted for Brexit. If they reflect the trend of the polls there will be folk in the audience who have since changed their minds. Hence a possible bunfight...

Ah!

I'd always laboured under the apparently mis apprehension that we had a secret ballot in the UK.
Silly me

They might all have fibbed about the way they voted just to get on the telly.

15 minutes of fame!

I think you put too much importance on Boris taking a hike as well.

I wonder why that could possibly be Fleurpepper ?
There’s a reason for everything, they say.

I find QT audiences quite mixed, often left wing people on it to counteract right wing views and likewise leave and remain views if that question arises.I think it could be your own bias if you call the BBC the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation tbh.

Callistemon21

Joseann

Standing right beside you Fleurpepper. Keep going. Those who yawn and bully you to shut up are usually those who voted for Brexit and who now secretly feel guilty

Not true, have you read the whole thread, specki4eyes? The majority here are saying they voted remain.

It's not the premise, it is the whole way it is presented.

If the poster had presented this as reasonable points for
discussion, the whole thread might have gone completely differently.

There are many questions, other workd events which have caused disruption too. Perhaps there are no answers but now Johnson has gone will there be some progress in possibly rejoining the Customs Union?

Well, you could have decided to add reasonable points for discussion, and help the thread go in a completely different direction. Now that would have been interesting indeed.

But however I would have worded the question, you and many others would have chosen to kick the player rather than the ball. This is perfectly clear, and has been on multiple occasions, sadly.

Your prerogative of course- but then ...

For the last 24 years the Question Time audience has been selected by Alison Fuller Pedley, a former UKIP member. This might explain the proponderence of angry Leave voters, even when the programme comes from a strongly Remain area.

Why has this person has been allowed to exercise such influence over the political makeup of the QT audience? Could it be for the same reason that Nigel Farage appeared on the QT panel 29 times in the years running up to the fraudulent referendum of June 2016? The Brexit Broadcasting Corporation has a lot to answer for.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/ourbeeb/is-question-time-s-audience-producer-really-fascist/

I don't bother reading or commenting on threads I'm not interested in. However, despite being in Ireland, I find this one interesting. A few thoughts:
Brexit is still of interest to those in other EU countries - we had a German guest a few days ago who had travelled through Wales for a few days. He raised the Brexit issue, saying that people in Wales he had chatted with had voted Leave but were now angry as they now knew they had been lied to. He also showed us his new passport - never needed one before as he could travel anywhere in Europe on National identity card, but had to get one as he was going through UK. In Ireland generally it is still a topic of conversation, but the tone is mostly "thankfully we're not in UK".

Ireland was quite worried about negative effects of Brexit on our economy, but fortunately that hasn't materialised. Exports to other EU countries and to Northern Ireland have increased. New ferry routes to Europe have started, bypassing the previous "landbridge"- good news for ports like Rosslare (but bad for the Welsh ports). To avoid the problems of customs and VAT, Amazon has opened a big new centre in Dublin, providing employment.

Ireland still has lots of problems, hospitals, housing etc, but overall I think Brexit has benefitted us by making us more connected with the rest of Europe.

TiggyW

16 pages - I’m losing the will to live… Going to do something more interesting. 👍😎☀️🍇☕️⛱️

... yet, before you lost the will to live - you had enough energy to post.

Again, if the subject bores you - well, I won't even comment on the obvious solution.

It seems that those who are most frustrated with a thread on Brexit, just have to keep posting to let us know how frustrated they are about a thread on Brexit.

... Why? Why does anyone care that someone wants to talk about the matter? If it's over and done with for you - then go do something more interesting. If others want to talk about how they've been affected since 2016 - why do you want to censor them?

TiggyW

16 pages - I’m losing the will to live… Going to do something more interesting. 👍😎☀️🍇☕️⛱️

Then why are you reading/commenting on it if you don’t find politics interesting?

16 pages - I’m losing the will to live… Going to do something more interesting. 👍😎☀️🍇☕️⛱️

Specki4eyes
Most of the people yawning voted to remain.

Callistemon21

^This edition, I understand, has an audience solely of people who voted for Brexit. If they reflect the trend of the polls there will be folk in the audience who have since changed their minds. Hence a possible bunfight...^

Ah!

I'd always laboured under the apparently mis apprehension that we had a secret ballot in the UK.
Silly me

suelld

maddyone

Just interested sue, but how have the rules changed that make it more difficult for you to trade? And the same question about your friends? What has changed that prevents you from trading? Especially trading in books?

I voted remain by the way, but interested to know.

In reply to some I do NOT support anything below the minimum wage and would love us all to be paid fairly - but it isn’t going to happen! I think many others have put it more succinctly than I did when referencing that we need the EEs or from wherever, to be prepared to do jobs the Brits WON’T.
MADDYONE Re the Book Trade - I am speaking from the point of view of a one person second-hand and Antiquarian Bookseller pov.
Pre Brexit an order from Europe would arrive and we would pack it and post it - no regs . Now we have to Register to post abroad, fill in long forms and vastly increased postage - Ok more annoying but not world shaking, Books are zero registered so no issues with customs THEN. NOW you come up with Customs charges which either have to be paid by you or the customer the other end - often more than the book is worth! Customer complaints cos they didn’t know about charges!. France and Germany (first-others to follow) have now brought in Packaging rules re no plastic and in order to sell there you have to REgister IN the Individual countries Separately, and pay them a fairly substantial annual fee to register with one or two companies that will allow you to post without hassle. Costs all round have risen - but when haven’t they - but after 43+ years in the Trade it’s all too much for this 77 year old! Etc.
I still send the odd parcel Internationally, the US is still OK - but a flourishing trade with the EU is no more! Similarly it seems the reverse is true - the orders from the EU almost stopped once Brexit went through.
And before anyone tells me about eBay’s Global Posting service I have almost never ever used ebay to sell through . I use a database that until just recently didn’t allow for uploading to ebay. I’d have had to do that individually plus costs. For the youngsters that are more active I’m sure they have the energy to game the system - I no longer have!

I have the same problem but with clients' records. They have no value whatsoever and the customs declaration from the UK describe them but recently one package was held up in France for over one month and I had to pay 10 euros customs duties. Extremely annoying and there's no redress.

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