Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster

Fleurpepper

Aveline

Oh yes. Thank God for our international expert in all aspects of economics, education, agricultural policy and so much more! If only she actually lived, paid taxes and voted here.

We do pay taxes in the UK, we do have property in the UK we pay tax on, and we certainly do vote here too. We have no pension or income from anywhere else either. And all our close family, ACs, Gcs, sils, bils and lofe long friends, in the UK too.

So not quite sure who you are talking about ???

I am not moaning, or bleating- I was responding to a very specific post.

Yes, there are issues in other countries, inflation is affecting people all over- only the UK has the added huge difference that Brexit makes, a very neagtive one.

Some people on GN are obsessed with personalising posts about Brexit, and bringing in very personal information, and it is hard not to respond.

Do you really think she only cares about her pension?

Well, yeah, that seems to be the main bone of contention because Sterling and the euro, and its affect on her income, has been referred to no less than 7 times on this thread. Some of us don't own one home, let alone 2 in different countries. Some of us have a basic state pension and nothing else, let alone private pensions AND state pension. Some of us voted to remain in the referendum and were initially annoyed that brexit won, but have realised that endlessly whinging about it on social media bores the pants off people and achieves nothing.

www.theguardian.com/global/2023/jun/18/six-britons-who-moved-to-the-eu-expat-life-post-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Link to article mentioned in MayBee's post

CheersMeDears

Fleurpepper do you honestly think that you're the only person in the whole world who's income has taken a battering since brexit, covid and the war in Ukraine? People all over the world are struggling to pay their rent, put food on the table and pay their utilities, even, believe it or not, in countries that have NOTHING to do with brexit. But here you are, 35 pages later, still moaning that you've only got a UK pension and nothing else blah blah blah. Well guess what? So have millions of others, but they manage to struggle on without constantly bleating how hard done by they are and how terribly they've been treated. Look around you, see what real hardship looks like and count your many blessings. This perpetual moaning is obsessive and deeply insulting to those of us who have considerably less than you have.

Do you really think she only cares about her pension? She cares about the effect that Brexit has had on so many people, not the well I’m ok so it doesn’t matter how it has affected other people attitude that many people sadly have. There’s a good article in yesterdays Observer focussing on UK citizens living in the EU ( I can’t do a link).

Good, pertinent post

Fleurpepper do you honestly think that you're the only person in the whole world who's income has taken a battering since brexit, covid and the war in Ukraine? People all over the world are struggling to pay their rent, put food on the table and pay their utilities, even, believe it or not, in countries that have NOTHING to do with brexit. But here you are, 35 pages later, still moaning that you've only got a UK pension and nothing else blah blah blah. Well guess what? So have millions of others, but they manage to struggle on without constantly bleating how hard done by they are and how terribly they've been treated. Look around you, see what real hardship looks like and count your many blessings. This perpetual moaning is obsessive and deeply insulting to those of us who have considerably less than you have.

Aveline

Oh yes. Thank God for our international expert in all aspects of economics, education, agricultural policy and so much more! If only she actually lived, paid taxes and voted here.

We do pay taxes in the UK, we do have property in the UK we pay tax on, and we certainly do vote here too. We have no pension or income from anywhere else either. And all our close family, ACs, Gcs, sils, bils and lofe long friends, in the UK too.

So not quite sure who you are talking about ???

ImogenMac

I’m afraid disbelief cannot be suspended enough to agree that you have shown yourself to be positive or tolerant in any respects, FP.

Overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Your prerogative, of course. But you don't know me, at all- so your judgement is not valid at all.

Thank you for the explanation, Maremia. I was just coming on to apologise to you for being unnecessarily sharp. It’s not normally my way to be rude. Pax!

I agree with you re weasel words being broken, btw. MayBee is correct in saying that the bill banning the export of live animals has been dropped by Sunak - I didn’t know. Appalling.

I know you have taken a lot of time and effort Maggie to interpret that document for us, and I apologise if you think I was having a blast at you. I wasn't. There are plenty of folk on here who will take those pronouncements as 'true intent'. I was 'politely' pointing out to them that already those weasel words have been broken.

I can only hope that one day we join the single market

I do too and we need not have left the Single Market and Customs Union after Brexit. That really would have been the best solution to pacify everyone.

Let’s be clear: leaving the single market and customs union was not part of the leave prospectus in 2016; indeed, several prominent Brexiters gave assurances that the UK’s place in the single market and customs union was not at risk. It was Theresa May, in her Lancaster House speech in January 2017, who made the decision to leave the single market and customs union.

Labour should not be colluding in the fiction that these issues were “settled irrevocably by the referendum”. They were not. If Labour is serious about correcting the damage caused by “the government’s bad Brexit deal” it should start from a correct account of the historical record: the decision to leave the single market and customs union was taken by the Conservative government, not by the people.

Prof Paul Willner
The Guardian
February 2023

Well I have friends who were totally for Brexit whereas I am against and alway will be. Not long ago we were having a conversation about something and he was having a right old moan and actually said you were right about Brexit, we should have stayed. Just one voter who has changed their mind. I can only hope that one day we join the single market or go back and join the EU.

Oh and thanks to Boris Johnson (never thought I would write that) we are getting our UK vote back. The Bill has passed into law and should be implemented next year.

Aveline

Oh yes. Thank God for our international expert in all aspects of economics, education, agricultural policy and so much more! If only she actually lived, paid taxes and voted here.

Those of us who worked in public services, Teaching, Civil Service, Local Government, parts of the NHS etc do pay taxes on those occupational pensions in the UK.
Old Age Pensions and Private Pensions are taxed in our country of residence.

Oh yes. Thank God for our international expert in all aspects of economics, education, agricultural policy and so much more! If only she actually lived, paid taxes and voted here.

May I also politely point out, Maremia, that I didn’t write the document or even condone it?

Yes, I said I wouldn’t comment again, but I don’t intend to let myself be attacked by people with poor comprehension skills either!

So, 9% still think that losing £100 billion each year was worth it?
Could I also politely point out Maggie, that rules may be made in the devolved parliaments, but they can also be overturned, and have been, by Westminster, which leads us on to a different thread.

Rural areas versus towns was discussed earlier. And some towns more than others. You must be aware that Edinburgh is not representative of Scotland, in so so many ways
Aveline will be so grateful that you pointed that out. Only living there, she might not have realised otherwise.

I thought Sunak had ditched the bill to stop live export of animals? And dogs are still in this country having had their ears cropped in other countries although I don’t know how they go about it.

I’m afraid disbelief cannot be suspended enough to agree that you have shown yourself to be positive or tolerant in any respects, FP.

Overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Maggiemaybe
Thank you. Very well put.
I have personal experience of the tendering rules.
As we both know there’s so much more we could do but there’s not one person in the present government with the heart for it.

If you say so, Maggiemaybe, but I read the words "what we WILL do" very early on in the report and continually throughout. (But I was on a ferry on the ocean waves). Rome .. and all the rest! 🇮🇹

Anyway, as from tomorrow my time will be taken up again with work and childminding so I doubt whether I will see this thread reach 1000 posts.

Joseann

I refer to the link provided by * Maggiemaybe*. It is all about "how we will achieve our vision".

It’s not actually, Joseann. The first section refers to things the government claim to have done already.

Now, apologies for the very long post to follow but never fear, I promise this will be my last on the thread. As the OP says, there’s no point in discussing - there never has been really. That wasn’t ever the point of the thread.

Thank you, Dinahmo, for taking the time to look at the list. Like you, I have little time to spare and many other things I should be doing - I just wanted to move this thread on a little by providing some information that seemed to be pertinent to the constant demands for a list of possible Brexit benefits.

To clarify, I am not and never have been a supporter of this government and as I’ve said several times now, I voted to remain. I would, like you, take many of the assertions in the document with a huge pinch of salt.

I do believe in fairness though, am not in the business of endlessly running this country down, and although I agree that much of the document is pie in the sky, some points seem reasonable to me. As I said earlier, because of the EU tendering rules for the public sector I once had to abandon a project that would have been hugely beneficial, so I’m glad to see they’ve already gone. Some of the other claims in the document that might be up for discussion by those who actually want to debate, are:

● Restored democratic control over our lawmaking. We gave the power to make and scrutinise the laws that apply to us back to our Parliament and the devolved Parliaments so that they are now made in Belfast, Cardiff, Edinburgh and London, not Brussels.
● Restored the UK Supreme Court as the final arbiter of the law that applies in the UK. UK judges, sitting in UK courts, now determine the law of the land in the UK, with judgments issued in English, not French, and accessible to those who speak Welsh.
● Made it tougher for EU criminals to enter the UK. EU nationals sentenced to a year or more in jail will now be refused entry to the UK. Under EU free movement we had to allow some foreign criminals into the country who would otherwise have been stopped and turned away. We have now brought the rules for EU criminals who are not protected by the Withdrawal Agreement in line with other foreign criminals.
● Restored fair access to our welfare system. We ended the preferential treatment of EU migrants over non-EU migrants, ensuring that wherever people are born, those who choose to make the UK their home pay into the system for a reasonable period of time before they can access the benefits of it.
● Set our own tariff regime via the UK Global Tariff. Our new UK Global Tariff is more tailored to the needs of the UK economy and denominated in pounds, not euros. We streamlined and simplified nearly 6,000 tariff lines, lowering costs for businesses by reducing administrative burdens, scrapped thousands of unnecessary tariff variations on products and expanded tariff-free trade by eliminating tariffs on a wide range of products.
● Banning the export of live animals for fattening and slaughter. Brexit enables us to ban the export of live animals for fattening and slaughter and improve the welfare of our farm animals.
● Ending the abhorrent, cruel practice of puppy smuggling and low-welfare pet imports. We are reducing the number of pet dogs, cats and ferrets that can be moved under the pet travel rules which apply to non-commercial movements, in order to prevent unscrupulous traders from exploiting our pet travel rules and bringing in powers to enable us to go even further to protect the welfare of our pets by introducing new import restrictions.
● Established an independent sanctions policy. Our new independent sanctions policy means we are more agile when deciding how and where to use sanctions, while continuing to coordinate with our international partners. The UK uses its sanctions regimes as part of an integrated approach to promote our values and interests and to combat state threats, terrorism, cyber-attacks and the use and proliferation of chemical weapons. We were the first European country to sanction the regime in Belarus and, overall, the UK imposed sanctions against 160 individuals and entities in its first full year running a fully independent UK sanctions policy.

I do think some of these merit consideration, but I’ll leave you to it.

PPS I think as a person, one of the Milliband brothers (not sure which one) could have achieved great things.

I assume as a politician you have to aim for high ideals, or else what's the point in wanting change, progress or improvement?