Criminal or a Health Matter?

As I said, she had the opportunity to plead guilty to a lesser charge and had she done so would likely have received a suspended sentence.
You can’t possibly say that the woman presented no threat to her other children Wyllow. None of us knows the whole of the story. One has to question whether a woman who had the capacity to deliberately destroy her near-term baby can safely be allowed to care for her other children. There is no answer to that question available to any of us.

Probably the only justification for a prison sentence is the deterrent value affecting others who might consider it.

It is not (yet) against the law for a woman to have sex with three different men, but this seems to be what some of you are judging her for.

Not always. And remember that we don’t know all the circumstances which lead the judge to decide that the sentence given was appropriate. He did know those circumstances. And he would have heard such pleas in mitigation as her counsel was properly able to put forward.

(asked and answered as checked and GSM is right)

However If she had been tried for GBH she could have received a suspended sentence. The CP went in hard and it would be interesting to know what their reasoning was to take a mother away from her children when she presented no threat to them.

But you can suspend a custodial sentence.

Wyllow3

Germanshepherdsmum

You can’t possibly be suggesting that doing this should be legalised MiniMoon?

Of course not GSM. t's the nature of how to deal with it that needs reviewing.

Are you telling us that legally a suspended sentence could not be given?

The sentencing guidelines provide for a custodial sentence only in these circumstances, so far as we know them.
It should be noted that the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 deals amongst other things with assault occasioning grievous bodily harm. Hence she was charged under this Act. People such as MiniMoon who demand the repeal of the Act should try understanding the breadth of offences it covers.

Minimoon It seems to me that this -poor woman- is just a spineless individual who couldn’t face up to the consequences of her own actions. In doing so she has killed one child and severely compromised her remaining children. I don’t think prison will help any of them but I have no sympathy for her whatsoever.

Germanshepherdsmum

We have no information about why this woman did what she did. Had she pleaded guilty at an early stage her sentence would have been suspended. She deliberately destroyed her child. Without knowing more I cannot feel sympathy for her.

Agree. Allegedly she didn’t know which of two men was the father and then lied to get the abortion pills and lied again in court. She killed her baby. She must have known the child might have been viable. Do I have have sympathy for her existing children? Yes, more than I have for her. Having said all that, I can’t see that sending her to prison will achieve anything positive.

Agree with all those who feel a custodial sentence is wrong. My feelings are unduly harsh.

Apparently this poor woman had been separated from her husband.

And?? She'd been in a relationship with 2 other men, either of whom could have been the father, she just didn't know which one. Only 4 victims in this. 3 children and one dead baby.

When I first heared this I thought it was on the USA, not here?

Surly she should have been more switched on?
If Pharmacist had sold her the meds, they don't just hand them out without question. The Internet a different story.

That baby was probably viable, there was more to this than we have been told, I'm sure.

Germanshepherdsmum

You can’t possibly be suggesting that doing this should be legalised MiniMoon?

Of course not GSM. t's the nature of how to deal with it that needs reviewing.

Are you telling us that legally a suspended sentence could not be given?

I agree Doodledog

thought about it overnight - mainly the effect on the children.

This is not a wise family decision in their interests at all. quite the opposite. Long term consequence in their lives already.

You can’t possibly be suggesting that doing this should be legalised MiniMoon?

How would you repeal the 1861 Act?

Apparently this poor woman had been separated from her husband. She was pregnant with another man's child. The couple reconciled and she hid the pregnancy from her husband. All this happened during covid restrictions, and we all know how difficult it was to get medical treatment then. The poor woman must have been desperate.
I know taking abortion pills so late in pregnancy is tantamount to killing the baby but a custodial sentence isn't going to help anyone.
She has 3 boys at home, one with a learning disability who need their mother. Also a husband with whom she needs to repair the relationship.
The 1861 law needs to be repealed.

I think it's easy to forget how difficult it was to see a doctor in the pandemic, and the woman had other children to add into the mix. They were scary times all round. In itself that is no excuse, but it could explain why she delayed. Also, people often put their heads in the sand in difficult situations and hope that things will sort themselves out somehow. Not wise of course, but maybe not worth going to jail for.

I feel desperately sad for the dead baby, and for the other children, but we don't know whether the woman was under duress from her newly reunited husband.

I can't understand why the judge refused to listen to mitigating circumstances either. I hope there is an appeal. Maybe she does deserve to go to jail (we don't know enough, and that's fair enough - she's going through enough without even more private details being made public), but at first glance it doesn't seem to me that she's been treated fairly.

I agree Katie. And that could have happened even in lockdown.

We havn’t heard the circumstances that led to the very late abortion and we obviously don’t want to see it repeated. These abortion pills should not be handed out over the internet because they rely on the user being honest, not all are.
A physical check by a doctor should be compulsory, for those wishing to terminate in this way.

As always, where is the father?

According to local news, she wasn't sure which, of the 2 men she was having a relationship with, was the father. Neither of them was her husband, from whom she'd been estranged, but then reconciled with. Hence her panic. Her internet searches would appear to indicate that she'd been aware of the pregnancy for quite some time and had Googled whether punching herself in the stomach would terminate it. So I'm struggling to understand why she left it so very late to act and then lied.

Judges can only apply the law, they don’t have the power to change it.

She murdered a human being. Having been through hell with a 27 week premature granddaughter who is now a healthy 18 year old, no sympathy from me.

Lomo123

Poor woman. Obviously shes been desparate. Jail isnt the answer, too keen to imprison women in this country imo.

Why should women be treated any differently Lomo123?

I read that the judge felt unable to listen to letters from health professionals pleading for a non custodial sentence because the law as it stood had been broken. The judge thought he had to apply the law and if the law needed to be changed, he couldn’t do it.