Unfolding news, attack in Nottingham

Casdon

Dickens

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

You are right, of course.

But a government genuinely committed to actually doing something meaningful and constructive about our failing services would be a good start - and would, at least, give all those who work in them a feeling of hope, a sense that perhaps, slowly, things would start to change.

At the moment, they must feel pretty hope-less... each day a battle, the same as the day, week, month, years before. I have watched nurses struggle with lack of staff in far less stressful environments, and seen how it gets them down. Goodness only knows how those who are dealing with individuals who are suicidal - like sodapop's daughter does - cope on a daily basis.

eazybee

The man killed whose van was stolen has been identified as a school caretaker named Ian Coates.

The man arrested and being interviewed by police is 31, a legal migrant from North Africa , a small-time drugs dealer with apparent mental health problems, known to police who visited him regularly.

So the man arrested has been here since the age of 21 and is here legally.

Which begs the question - has he developed these problems and fallen into criminal ways since he has been here, if so, how and why and what can be done to prevent this happening to others?

Or did the vetting process fail when he was given leave to stay?

toscalily

Fleurpepper

Could you kindly give us a description of an 'illegal immigrant'?, please.

Not sure why you asked this question but perhaps this will help: There is no legal nor broadly accepted definition of an ‘irregular migrant’, though the term is commonly used to refer to people who are in the UK without the legal right to be so.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/

I asked folowing this comment

'I merely mentioned that the people in THAT PARTICULAR hotel are illegal immigrants because I know someone who works there, and that person told me. '

I totally agree, a very difficult, complex job with a high stress level and therefore a high drop out rate.

Dickens

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

If we had the greatest government ever and endless funding it would still take a very long time to turn mental health services around. Recruitment is a huge problem, it’s a difficult job which is not for many people. I’ve got every admiration for people who work on the coal face of adult mental health.

All I see are those beautiful young faces with no future for them or their parents and the school caretaker who is described as a loved colleague.
I don’t know if he had a family but I grieve for all those left behind who must be in total disbelief and profound shock.

What this link tells us is that the government haven’t got the slightest idea who is in the country.
They don’t seem to have much trouble finding me when they want me to pay my taxes.
Strange!

Fleurpepper

Could you kindly give us a description of an 'illegal immigrant'?, please.

Not sure why you asked this question but perhaps this will help: There is no legal nor broadly accepted definition of an ‘irregular migrant’, though the term is commonly used to refer to people who are in the UK without the legal right to be so.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/

Absolutely tragic for all the victims but especially so for the two young people, never to have the opportunities in life we hope our children and grandchildren will have. Such a loss and great sadness for all their families. My thoughts are also with the three in hospital, one apparently in a critical condition.

tickingbird

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

I doubt very much it will be. Even with a Labour government.

The priority with both Tory and Labour is to get spending under control. Starmer's already sort of hinted that we shouldn't expect any 'largesse'.

Until a politician or two is affected personally by the results of cuts to MH services, or any of the other public services, they will tinker around the edges, and talk about it. But these issues largely don't affect them... they don't hang around at bus stops, walk home from a night out, and they certainly don't live in rough areas or those that have high rates of criminal activity.

Nothing will change, that's guaranteed.

Just to add I read Howverydareyou’s post wrong and thought she meant the older victim owned a hotel housing migrants. My mistake. Regardless, another family left grieving.

MH care and support has been sadly lacking for a long time. It should be high priority for any future government.

Thank you Dickens sadly my highly trained, experienced daughter is now actively looking for jobs outside of health care. Often she is working until 8pm trying to secure help for her patients and completing relentless paperwork. To say nothing of mentoring new staff etc. She then goes home and worries about what is happening to the people she can't get ongoing care for. No wonder people are slipping through the net.

The man killed whose van was stolen has been identified as a school caretaker named Ian Coates.

The man arrested and being interviewed by police is 31, a legal migrant from North Africa , a small-time drugs dealer with apparent mental health problems, known to police who visited him regularly.

sodapop

Care and facilities for people with mental health problems are woefully lacking in UK. My daughter a mental health community nurse is at breaking point trying to get support for suicidal patients.

I imagine the stress of such a job leads to staff just throwing in the towel and changing course - there's only so much pressure you can bear, under such highly-charged situations.

The idea of 'Community Care' was in principle a good one - the de-institutionalisation of care for those with mental health problems and disabilities. Unfortunately the fact it was also more cost-effective became (IMO) the main driver of the programme, especially under the Thatcher government.

In the 80s, those who'd previously been in long-term institutional care were not infrequently pitchforked back into the community and mostly left to fend for themselves. How was that ever going to work?

Things like Community Care and Asylum processing - and even the processing of disabled and sick individuals for Disability Benefits - cannot be done properly on the cheap - people will simply fall through the cracks, and for some the consequences will be dire, even fatal.

But as long as any government is focused on the ideology of "small-state", continually cutting back on public spending, then nothing will change. It will just get worse with each swathe of cuts - made in the name of Austerity.

I sympathise with your daughter - I really don't know how she copes faced with the insurmountable problems each and every day... with no prospect of improvement on the horizon.

Could you kindly give us a description of an 'illegal immigrant'?, please.

NotSpaghetti I merely mentioned that the people in THAT PARTICULAR hotel are illegal immigrants because I know someone who works there, and that person told me. That's all. End of comments.

MerylStreep

tickingbird
How many police would you expect to see at 4am in the morning?

After witnessing the attack on the students the person dialled 999 and the police were there within 10 minutes, therefore I would expect lots of police to be around!

HowVeryDareYou2

NotSpaghetti I know someone who works in the hotel. I live about 7 miles from it. What do you know yourself about it?

I know that amongst asylum seekers there will always be genuine cases.
I am not objecting to the knowledge of how any hotel is used - I am thoroughly dismayed that some people lump individuals into one illegal whole.

You did that.

Care and facilities for people with mental health problems are woefully lacking in UK. My daughter a mental health community nurse is at breaking point trying to get support for suicidal patients.

Casdon

YorkLady

NotSpaghetti

THIS is the latest info:

The 31-year-old West African national has been living legally in the UK since he was a teenager he has struggled with mental health problems and this is what the police say they are looking at now.

But the press scream “migrant “.
The situation is horrendous enough without our press inciting racial hatred!!!!

Inciting racial hatred is happening on Gransnet, not just in the media. He must have been in the UK for at least 12 years. Mental health problems are common, the resources and staff to manage people suffering in the community are woefully inadequate, and this attack could just as easily have been perpetrated by anybody.

Stirring up racial hatred is not going to help the devastated families of those who've lost a loved one, either.

It would be better to demand that the government - this one or the next, or whichever, deals with the issues surrounding the woeful lack of support and facilities for all with mental health problems - a system which clearly isn't fit for purpose when it allows those with a pathological illness to roam around with no-one making sure they take their medication if it's needed and no-one supervising their activities. Some MH sufferers need to be in a supervised environment.

My late mother - a retired SRN - had to deal with a man suffering from paranoia in the block of flats where she lived. He regularly had bouts of alarming behaviour which terrified the other residents. As an ex SRN (who had also worked in mental health clinics) she liaised with his doctor who could do little except prescribe medication which the man refused to take... so the responsibility fell on her - at age 80! This man even attacked her on a couple of occasions when she tried to pacify him - something she was forced to do because the other residents relied on her to deal with him. An utterly ridiculous and unacceptable state of affairs.

tickingbird
How many police would you expect to see at 4am in the morning?

I don’t know why a poster mentioned the older victim owned a hotel that housed migrants but I find it odd he hasn’t been named. I also find it strange that the attacker was able to get from Ilkeston Road to Magdala Road without being stopped by the police. After the murder of those young people an eye witness states he strolled up Ilkeston Road and it would have taken him approximately 30 minutes to reach Magdala Road where he then murdered the older victim and stole the van. Unless he caught a taxi I cannot understand how the police didn’t pick him up en route.

Freya5

YorkLady

NotSpaghetti

THIS is the latest info:

The 31-year-old West African national has been living legally in the UK since he was a teenager he has struggled with mental health problems and this is what the police say they are looking at now.

But the press scream “migrant “.
The situation is horrendous enough without our press inciting racial hatred!!!!

Well he is. He wasn't born here, was he.

The woke press also showed a white arm with a handcuff on, as speaking of suspect. Let us have the truth please.

YorkLady

NotSpaghetti

THIS is the latest info:

The 31-year-old West African national has been living legally in the UK since he was a teenager he has struggled with mental health problems and this is what the police say they are looking at now.

But the press scream “migrant “.
The situation is horrendous enough without our press inciting racial hatred!!!!

Well he is. He wasn't born here, was he.