Yet another MP, ignorant about biology.

VioletSky

If all the personal comments and the frankly playground level "I know you are but what am I" nonsense somehow constitutes a reasonable, productive discussion where all women are allowed a view on their own rights...

Then well, despite our different views I thought more of you Dickens and I guess I was wrong and you've joined the ranks of "anything goes as long as I get to feel like I'm winning" mudslingers damaging their own arguments to a more discerning eye

Everyone is allowed a "view" - whoever they are. Trans women who are biologically male but insist they are women are allowed a view.

And everyone is entitled to challenge those views.

Then well, despite our different views I thought more of you Dickens and I guess I was wrong and you've joined the ranks of "anything goes as long as I get to feel like I'm winning" mudslingers damaging their own arguments to a more discerning eye

I'm challenging your comments / observations because I think you are indulging in the same "nonsense" that you are accusing others of indulging in. The nonsense that makes you laugh - but which you don't specify, and again I ask - how is that productive?

You won't answer the question - what nonsense are you talking about? I'm asking for an example - or examples - of the 'nonsense' you are referring to - because without it, that is 'mudslinging'. It's vague, it's just a general accusation without anything to back it up.

If I were to accuse you (or anyone else) of talking rubbish - I'd tell you why I thought so. Otherwise it's entirely unproductive and pointless to just throw in such a comment.

I’m truly glad that your reality isn’t mine., and I don’t think of you, so what you feel is immaterial.
And refusing to acknowledge quotes of things you have said . . .
Says it all really.
Sorry, that was to VS - in case that wasn’t clear.

I do wish Violetsky would put her glasses on .

So many “mistakes” due to not wearing them.

VioletSky

I don't really care what you think of me Mollygo because your perceptions aren't my reality.
I’m truly glad that your reality isn’t mine., and I don’t think of you, so what you feel is immaterial.
And refusing to acknowledge quotes of things you have said . . .
Says an lot about you really.

Back to the OP. If KB is going to talk about chromosomes, or whether or not TW are female, don’t you think it reasonable to expect she would know what she was talking about?
Evidently not as I don’t think you replied to that.

Sorry Rosie I am unsure how or why that happened

It was a genuine mistake and I'm not wearing my glasses

A bit like doodledog thinking I said I enjoy being annoying on threads. Unfortunately I've explained that's not the case and I haven't been heard

VioletSky

So what FarNorth

I've never said i enjoy being annoying on threads

I'll put quotes in quote marks in future but I fail to see what difference that would ultimately make to what I did or did not say

I think you meant to reply to me? A case of not seeing individuals, just lumping us all together, classic bigotry.

Doodledog

I don't think I can help you with this one

I told you what I actually said before your screenshot that proved me right

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you can't grasp that for whatever reason, that's ok

varian It is interesting that there are just as many transmen (assigned female at birth) as transwomen (assigned male at birth) yet those campaigning against trans rights only seem to target transwomen.

I think it would be very hard for a fully transitioned transman, complete with beard and all external characteristics of a man, to be forced to use the Ladies loo.

Nobody is campaigning against trans rights. Transpeople have the same rights as everybody else, but some think they should have extra rights and privileges. Some transwomen think that despite having enjoyed a male puberty, they should be able to identify as women and enjoy winning all the women's sporting titles. You do realise that the vast majority of transwomen keep their fully functioning penis? They don't see that as any barrier to sharing spaces where women are in a state of undress including nudity, despite what the women might feel.
The reason transmen are hardly mentioned even by transactivists is because men aren't threatened by transmen. Transmen don't oust men from sporting success, don't oust men from the boardroom, one has never been named "man of the year", I could go on. You'll note the trans activists largely ignore them too. The sacred cry usually stops at TWAW.

VS I know what you said, as I remember that it explained a lot when you said it, and it stuck in my mind. I quoted it as I thought it was relevant to this thread, and you claimed never to have said it. Unfortunately for you, a very quick search found it straight away, and I posted a screenshot which showed that yes, you said it - almost word for word as I remembered it.

There was no quote in your post - you simply advised another poster to take joy in being annoying if people don't like you, or words to that effect (as can be seen in the screenshot). As I said earlier, people can read the thread and decide for themselves, but it is all there.

Varian, I agree that people on these threads concentrate on transwomen, as it is transwomen who are pushing to enter female spaces. If transmen use the Gents, frankly I don't care - for one thing other women don't use them, and for another transmen are not a threat to other women anyway. It is when men simply say they are female in order to access women's spaces (not just loos, but changing rooms, refuges, prisons, hospitals etc) that there is a problem. We acknowledge that 'genuine' transwomen are not a threat, but the fact remains that men with ill intent are able to enter too, so long as self-id persists.

So what FarNorth

I've never said i enjoy being annoying on threads

I'll put quotes in quote marks in future but I fail to see what difference that would ultimately make to what I did or did not say

VioletSky

Screenshot 3 and 4. Here is you sharing a screenshot of exactly what I said, which is not what you said I said

They are vastly different things and have very different meanings

In your initial post to Fleurpepper there is nothing to suggest that is a quote of anybody else's words. It is typed as if your own. Good manners and ethics require that you attribute quotes to their creator. At the very least a quote should be in quotation marks or in italics.

It was a dark day.

Now is that sentence a quote or my own thought? With no indication to the contrary I think people will assume it is my own thought. Just like your "be annoying" comment.

The thread has been nicely derailed for a bit, but I'm sure we can get it back on track.

People were asked “Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?”, and had the option of selecting either “Yes”, or selecting “No” and writing in their gender identity.

Across England and Wales, there were responses from 45.7 million people (94.0% of the population aged 16 years and over).

A total of 45.4 million (93.5%) answered “Yes”, indicating that their gender identity was the same as their sex registered at birth.

A total of 262,000 people (0.5%) answered “No”, indicating that their gender identity was different from their sex registered at birth. Within this group:

118,000 (0.24%) answered “No” but did not provide a write-in response

48,000 (0.10%) identified as a trans man

48,000 (0.10%) identified as a trans woman

30,000 (0.06%) identified as non-binary

18,000 (0.04%) wrote in a different gender identity

The remaining 2.9 million (6.0%) did not answer the question on gender identity.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/bulletins/genderidentityenglandandwales/census2021

We do need to be compassionate to the 0.5% of the population who identify as trans.

It is interesting that there are just as many transmen (assigned female at birth) as transwomen (assigned male at birth) yet those campaigning against trans rights only seem to target transwomen.

I think it would be very hard for a fully transitioned transman, complete with beard and all external characteristics of a man, to be forced to use the Ladies loo.

I don't really care what you think of me Mollygo because your perceptions aren't my reality

If this is the sort of thread you want it's only going to come from your side

No VS, you’ve gone back to your playground behaviour.
You’ve joined the ranks of "anything goes as long as I get to feel like I'm winning"
You are the mudslinger damaging your own arguments to my more discerning eye.

Your ability to describe your own behaviour whilst accusing others of doing what you do is remarkable.
Your refusal to acknowledge that anyone except you (pl) does contribute to a reasonable, productive discussion where all women are allowed a view on their own rights... and your attempts to shut down these productive discussions because the views don’t fit yours is a feature of many threads.
Have a nice day.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-307535-screenshot-20230616-190344.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-902506-screenshot-20230616-190344.png

Screenshot 4

I don't think I bothered reporting anyway

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-661823-screenshot-20230616-190307.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-12934-screenshot-20230616-190254.png

Screenshot 3 and 4. Here is you sharing a screenshot of exactly what I said, which is not what you said I said

They are vastly different things and have very different meanings

Screenshot 2

Here is me telling you what I actually said

Screenshot 1.

Here is what you said I said

Hang on, I have time, I'll place the comments again in time order for you

Again doodledog

You only proved I said exactly what I said I did

Maybe you need to read through it again

Yes, your contributions to this thread haven't been particularly informative, have they?

First you accuse me of lying, and reported me for saying you had said something you didn't, when I could prove that you had said it, then you start accusing people of 'low blows' and men who disagree with having to declare themselves not pregnant of being morally repugnant. Then we get told we are scapegoating a vulnerable demographic and that we talk 'ridiculous nonsense'.

Not very 'kind', is it? Maybe remember this thread next time you start saying that it is the so-called 'gender-critical' who hound, insult and bully others?

If all the personal comments and the frankly playground level "I know you are but what am I" nonsense somehow constitutes a reasonable, productive discussion where all women are allowed a view on their own rights...

Then well, despite our different views I thought more of you Dickens and I guess I was wrong and you've joined the ranks of "anything goes as long as I get to feel like I'm winning" mudslingers damaging their own arguments to a more discerning eye

VioletSky

Also there is a lot of ridiculous nonsense that occasionally makes me laugh

... such as?

You said earlier that these threads are repetitive and unproductive, and yet here you are, just throwing out observations such as this one.

How is this not repetitive - how is it productive to make this kind of comment?

Tell us what constitutes "ridiculous nonsense" so maybe we can get past it and make these threads more informative, more rational, eh?

Comments such as this one are challenges. You are telling us (some of us), "you are ridiculous" in effect.

Let's have some critical-thinking here... because as long as you continue to make these vague observations, so people will respond, and so the "unproductive" thread will continue, one which you are propelling along nicely with your rather pointless observations.

Thanks Mollygo

I've always been able to laugh at myself and didn't know it meant that

VioletSky

Also there is a lot of ridiculous nonsense that occasionally makes me laugh

And as you are a major contributor to the ridiculous nonsense, you’re laughing at yourself. That’s OK I found this quote to help you.

Being able to laugh at yourself is a sign of resiliency and mental toughness.

Have a nice day.