Missing Titanic Submarine

Also the trip for her and her husband was delayed due to Covid.

The latest is Mrs Dawood was due to go on the Titan but she says she gave up her place to her son who was eager to go. Poor lady, what grief she must be going through.

I too feel so dreadfully sorry for Mrs Dawood and, of course, the other bereaved families. To have actually been waiting, with huge excitement and anticipation aboard the Polar Prince, only to have that excitement turn to fear and dread, is unimaginable. I found it particularly poignant that Suleman had arranged with Guinness World Records for the Rubik's Cube record to be broken when he was 3700 metres below sea level. Such a waste of a young life.

I'm just watching the interview on BBC news with the bereaved wife and mother who lost her husband and son in the Titan implosion. She says that her son Suleman was really excited to be going, no mention of any fears or doubts.
I must say I didn't expect to see a televised interview with one of the bereaved so soon, I thought the families were being given time to grieve? But maybe she wanted to counter the suggestions that her son was an unwilling participant. Poor woman.

Agreed Iam and Allsorts. Animals are given no choice. They have no voice. I find this sort of thing deeply upsetting.

Dogs do feel fear and react to it. It was wicked to send the dog to its death that way.

I hated that a dog and monkey were sent into space. The Astronauts had a choice, that’s what it comes down to, being free and able to take risks. I love all animals, humans come first though, having said that I preferred my cat and dog to a lot of people.

Additionally I have always thought it was just awful what they did to the dog and to monkeys they’ve sent into space. Animals aren’t here for humans to torture but that’s a whole different discussion.

Thanks NanaDana.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why is it wrong to place the same value on the life of a dog as that of a person? In my experience dogs are infinitely preferable to many humans.

I didn't say it was wrong to place the same value, as that's not what happened. The poster chose to play a sick game of bereavement top trumps, in which the human casualties were assessed as having less value than the life of a dog. I also fail to understand why anyone should even feel the need to make such a public comparison. As an aside, as a lifelong dog lover I agree that they are often preferable company to many humans I have met, but that doesn't mean that I would ever be so sociopathic as to tell someone that I was more sorry for the loss of my latest pooch than I was for that of their recently deceased relative, even if I was. You can choose not to be hurtful. The OP didn't.

Why is it wrong to place the same value on the life of a dog as that of a person? In my experience dogs are infinitely preferable to many humans.

Dreadful thing to do.

BlueBelle

Well I felt more sorry for the dog they sent up in space I thought that was the worst possible thing hideous just hideous

She had no choice.
Just a lab rat, poor creature.

BlueBelle

Well I don’t agree there Monica yes of course in normal circumstances I value humans a million times more than animals but this had to be the cruelest thing ever, she was terrified and died of heat exhaustion and fear after being enclosed and strapped in
Yes she did feel fear her heart tracings were tracked and they went off the scale
A human has a choice she had none ….hideous

I'm sure that the bereaved relatives of those who died are suitably impressed by your comparison, BlueBelle. You feel more sorry for a dog? That truly is hideous, and I am at a loss as to why anyone would feel the need to say it. A staggering lack of empathy for fellow human beings. And there's no point in talking about "in normal circumstances" either, as if that somehow makes a difference to the comparison you have chosen to make, regardless of their feelings. Would you have said that to their faces? No. So why say it here?

MayBee. The man that designed the Titan was an engineer. He also built and flew his own plane. He was on board. Your argument doesn’t hold water - pardon the pun.

M0nica

I put more value on people's lives than that of a dog, who would not know what was happening and would not be in a position to anticipate or fear what the outcome might be.

Unlike humans she would have picked up on the fear from her handlers, no matter how much they tried to keep a lid on it.

MayBee70

We went on a tour of The Midway aircraft carrier a few years ago and, even though it’s not a submarine it was far too claustrophobic for me. The only thing I can imagine to be worse would be being in a tank!

We were lucky enough to go when it first opened as a museum in 2004. I agree the sleeping quarters etc were far too claustrophobic for me too. Loved the upper deck and all the planes.

Well I don’t agree there Monica yes of course in normal circumstances I value humans a million times more than animals but this had to be the cruelest thing ever, she was terrified and died of heat exhaustion and fear after being enclosed and strapped in
Yes she did feel fear her heart tracings were tracked and they went off the scale
A human has a choice she had none ….hideous

I put more value on people's lives than that of a dog, who would not know what was happening and would not be in a position to anticipate or fear what the outcome might be.

BlueBelle

Well I felt more sorry for the dog they sent up in space I thought that was the worst possible thing hideous just hideous

That was discussed in a recent The Rest is History podcast. They took her to stay with a family prior to the flight so she could have some ‘happy time’. Heartbreaking.

MayBee70

Norah

MayBee70 ^The point I’ve tried to make is that eg astronauts are knowledgeable about what they’re doing: know the risks and I’m pretty sure they know what to do if there’s a problem.
The people in Titan were totally dependent on the safety of what they were in and had no control over their fate other than deciding not to go.

No.

Trained astronauts in seemingly well engineered shuttle died in 1986, slightly one minute after liftoff, no warning.

In 2003 a shuttle broke up upon re-entry - it seems their only control was not in knowledge/ training - rather in deciding to go or not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents

But they knew exactly what the risks were and, if it had been a problem that was solvable they had the knowledge to try to do something. Which did happen I believe with one of the early missions. Until I saw a play about space exploration I thought that there were the people who designed the space craft and the astronauts were just very fit people who went up in them. I hadn’t realised the astronauts themselves were engineers. Obviously some weren’t eg that poor school teacher who died. That was one of the most awful things I’ve ever witnessed live on tv. It’s the same with F1 drivers. They put a lot if input into the cars they drive.

Of course shuttle pilots/crew are knowledgeable engineers. Seems knowledge didn't halt the 2 shuttle / any other space disasters.

Well I felt more sorry for the dog they sent up in space I thought that was the worst possible thing hideous just hideous

Norah

MayBee70 ^The point I’ve tried to make is that eg astronauts are knowledgeable about what they’re doing: know the risks and I’m pretty sure they know what to do if there’s a problem.
The people in Titan were totally dependent on the safety of what they were in and had no control over their fate other than deciding not to go.

No.

Trained astronauts in seemingly well engineered shuttle died in 1986, slightly one minute after liftoff, no warning.

In 2003 a shuttle broke up upon re-entry - it seems their only control was not in knowledge/ training - rather in deciding to go or not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents

But they knew exactly what the risks were and, if it had been a problem that was solvable they had the knowledge to try to do something. Which did happen I believe with one of the early missions. Until I saw a play about space exploration I thought that there were the people who designed the space craft and the astronauts were just very fit people who went up in them. I hadn’t realised the astronauts themselves were engineers. Obviously some weren’t eg that poor school teacher who died. That was one of the most awful things I’ve ever witnessed live on tv. It’s the same with F1 drivers. They put a lot if input into the cars they drive.

MayBee70 ^The point I’ve tried to make is that eg astronauts are knowledgeable about what they’re doing: know the risks and I’m pretty sure they know what to do if there’s a problem.
The people in Titan were totally dependent on the safety of what they were in and had no control over their fate other than deciding not to go.

No.

Trained astronauts in seemingly well engineered shuttle died in 1986, slightly one minute after liftoff, no warning.

In 2003 a shuttle broke up upon re-entry - it seems their only control was not in knowledge/ training - rather in deciding to go or not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents

We went on both nuclear and conventional submarines when a close friend and his son, our godson, were submariners.

The Museum of the Sea in Cherbourg hs a decommissioned French nuclear sub on display. It was fascinating to notice the cultural differences. Ous subs are all grey metal inside. The French one had wood/wood effect doors to the cabins and lots of brass!