Where is the money coming from?

Indeed. Neither people nor, in my view, planes. Train pilots, fine - send planes, no.

M0nica, Lets get it clear. Ukraine was invaded by Russia who wished to take it over. The country was no threat to Russia and had done nothing to threaten it. It was an act of naked aggression.

Agreed 100%.

The question - do we pay, stay isolated from damage. I vote isolationism. Send money, send equipment, send no people.

Lets get it clear. Ukraine was invaded by Russia who wished to take it over. The country was no threat to Russia and had done nothing to threaten it. It was an act of naked aggression.

Now people think they should be prepared to negotiate with Russia. On what basis? Reward Russia for its invasion and perhaps give it some of its territory. Russia has already occupied Crimea and made it part of Russia. Then next time Russia invades, should it concede a little more, until by constant mini wars could Russia finally achieve its objectives of invading and taking over Ukraine.

The only negotiations between the two countries should be on the basis of how Russia can withdraw from Ukraine and at the same time keep some dignity and credibility. Probably the best way of doing that would be by Putin being overthrown and replaced, when the need for Russia to concentrate on its own affairs could be used asa reason for withdrawal.

I wasn’t thinking of boots on the ground but more like old fashioned diplomacy/talks/ negotiations/resolution etc. The bit that usually follows war - I’m obviously suffering from sunstroke.

I beg to differ.
NATO boots on the ground and other offensive actions could cause this to escalate into a much wider conflict.

NATO’s actions are defensive, designed not to provoke conflict but to prevent conflict. The Alliance has a responsibility to ensure that this war does not escalate and spread beyond Ukraine, which would be even more devastating and dangerous

www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm

Callistemon21 No not you - NATO.

Who - me?

It's the heat.

🤔

Callistemon21 and therefore? Not exactly been the life and soul of the party?

ronib

Callistemon21 Ukraine isn’t part of NATO.

I know that!!

But it borders NATO countries which in turn border other European countries.

Callistemon21 Ukraine isn’t part of NATO.

So Libor is a fiction Maizie?

I agree with GrannyGravy in that we should have acted long ago. We allowed Russia to murder Litvinenko over a cup of tea in a London hotel. A few sanctions were made but nothing of substance. Then we allowed Russia to attempt to kill the Skripals in Salisbury using a lethally dangerous substance, and in the process seriously injuring a British policeman, another British man, and killing a British woman. Again a few sanctions, but nothing really too serious. We pretty much ignored the annexation of Crimea in 2014. The sanctions were never severe enough to stop Putin. I would ask the question how dare our government do so little to protect and uphold the sanctity of our island?
Given our inaction previously it is not surprising that Russia thought her west would not do anything about his invasion of Ukraine. The west is in bed with Russian money and there is still far more Russian money in London than there should be, so I understand. On that reasoning I believe we owe Ukraine.

Germanshepherdsmum

The banks borrow money Curtaintwitcher. As with everyone, they now pay more to borrow it.

Who are the banks 'borrowing' money from, GSM?.

Banks create money when they make a loan (under licence from the government) and make some of their profits from interest charged on the loans. Rising interest rates increase their profits.

They also are paid interest by the BoE for their reserves (which is odd, as it's the BoE which created the reserves in the first place).

I know they undertake other profitable operations on the financial markets, but I'm puzzled as to who they 'borrow' from.

Like any other business, banks are taxed on their profits. Is that what curtaintwitcher might be referring to?

Where will they stop?
Partway through Germany last time, splitting that country in two, families either side of the divide.

People have short memories but surely we all remember 9 November 1989?

ronib

GG13 well it’s not up to tiny ill equipped Uk to bang the drums where Russia is concerned. Not in our power - what could we have done? Ukraine and Russia need to start talking to each other.

We're part of NATO.

The banks borrow money Curtaintwitcher. As with everyone, they now pay more to borrow it.

ronib

GG13 well it’s not up to tiny ill equipped Uk to bang the drums where Russia is concerned. Not in our power - what could we have done? Ukraine and Russia need to start talking to each other.

The only ones that might, in the end be able to influence all this will be China or America.

We are too small to make much difference - other than with cash and arms, which won't affect the outcomes.

Well, it also costs the government more to borrow money, which increases our debt, and decreases the amounts apparently available for services.🙁

Interest rates have gone up, which means more money for the banks and therefore more money for the government to squander.

GG13 well it’s not up to tiny ill equipped Uk to bang the drums where Russia is concerned. Not in our power - what could we have done? Ukraine and Russia need to start talking to each other.

ronib

GG13 but no one has any idea of what is happening. Does Belarus have Russian nuclear weapons targeted at the Uk, Europe and USA? How much is bluff?

I don’t know why anyone would think for one moment that Russia would not fight this war to the bitter end. I feel that Ukraine was ill advised from the outset.

What was ill advised was letting Russia waltz in and annexe Crimea with little objections.

This gave President Putin the green light to invade Ukraine years later when he needed a boost at home.

I am in principle against war and the dreadful loss of human life on both sides which is the inevitable consequence.

I am more against despotic leaders thinking they can take whatever land they perceive as belonging to the motherland whether that be Russia with Ukraine, Israel and the Palestinians and China with Taiwan.

Where will they stop?

GG13 but no one has any idea of what is happening. Does Belarus have Russian nuclear weapons targeted at the Uk, Europe and USA? How much is bluff?

I don’t know why anyone would think for one moment that Russia would not fight this war to the bitter end. I feel that Ukraine was ill advised from the outset.

I cannot think of one recent conflict that we have improved by getting involved.

It usually ends up worse for the civilians.🙁

I appreciate that various groups have had help, over here, through the winter, but that doesn't change the fact that food bank use is increasing rapidly, the NHS in in meltdown, we have a cost of living crisis, and services are being slashed.

Homelessness and affordability to get/keep a home is collapsing.

We are also, as a nation, massively in debt.

ronib unless you are party to inside information you have no idea what negotiations are ongoing in the background.