Into the abyss - NHS Consultants have voted for strike action

Germanshepherdsmum

Are you suggesting that the taxpayer should be paying doctors the same as bankers and City lawyers, whose remuneration is decided by market forces?

The way things are going, with NHS doctors leaving in droves to work abroad it looks very likely that the government will have to pay the market rate.

There is no problem with the govt finding the money as taxation doesn't fund spending and state investment in the NHS supports economic activity to a multiplier of at least 2.5. It would actually contribute significantly to growth. Particularly as few other entities seem interested in investing in the UK.

And don't forget that most of the money the state pays out returns to it via taxation

DaisyAnneReturns

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns

My Aussie family & friends are third generation Aussies.

They are in a variety of jobs from Politics, Healthcare, Finance and at one point the patriarch owned the majority of shares in one of the most successful Aussie Rules Footie Team.

They have a broad view of life in Australia today, but hey ho you know better.

That still makes each of your relatives and each of mine, one voice, one point of view and none of those have much bearing on consultants striking here other than Australia being an attraction to some when it comes to leaving UK.

I was more interested in the new regulations on land and property and how it might affect doctors.

I thought points of view were allowed on discussion forums?

Perhaps you could let me know what I can and cannot post?

More than a City lawyer is a very hefty sum. That doesn’t mean the lawyer is worth it but it’s what the market is willing to pay. What the taxpayer is willing to pay is a very different matter I think.

Germanshepherdsmum

Are you suggesting that the taxpayer should be paying doctors the same as bankers and City lawyers, whose remuneration is decided by market forces?

No. GSM. Why would I say that? I do believe "the labourer is worthy of his hire". That mean that whoever employs them, they should get the going rate.

In this case the rate is set by an international market. As their skills are universal this could be more than a City lawyer. The only thing stopping the doctors, nurses etc., getting the "market rate" is this Conservative Government.

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns

My Aussie family & friends are third generation Aussies.

They are in a variety of jobs from Politics, Healthcare, Finance and at one point the patriarch owned the majority of shares in one of the most successful Aussie Rules Footie Team.

They have a broad view of life in Australia today, but hey ho you know better.

That still makes each of your relatives and each of mine, one voice, one point of view and none of those have much bearing on consultants striking here other than Australia being an attraction to some when it comes to leaving UK.

I was more interested in the new regulations on land and property and how it might affect doctors.

karmalady

Their union is allowing the consultants to do private work on strike days

Perhaps they need to top up their pension pots, now that lifetime allowance has been changed

Wow!!!!

The optics of that is not going to help their cause.

The lifetime allowance has been scrapped, to their benefit.

At least private patients won’t be having their appointments cancelled then, just those reliant on the NHS. Such a relief.

Their union is allowing the consultants to do private work on strike days

Perhaps they need to top up their pension pots, now that lifetime allowance has been changed

DaisyAnneReturns

My Aussie family & friends are third generation Aussies.

They are in a variety of jobs from Politics, Healthcare, Finance and at one point the patriarch owned the majority of shares in one of the most successful Aussie Rules Footie Team.

They have a broad view of life in Australia today, but hey ho you know better.

Are you suggesting that the taxpayer should be paying doctors the same as bankers and City lawyers, whose remuneration is decided by market forces?

Germanshepherdsmum

They are being paid by the taxpayer and they always knew that would be the case unless they were able to move into private healthcare or general practice or move abroad. They don’t however have the freedom to move to another employer that lawyers, accountants and bankers and they knew that from the outset. They made that choice.

There is no reason and it makes no sense in an international market, for people to be paid less just because they are employed by the government. If people can afford to pay directly for healthcare or for health care insurance, then they are able to pay higher taxes for the mutual system we were once so proud of.

I do think this is one case were an hypothecated tax would be acceptable to most. People are mislead if they believe NI was intended to cover health care. It wasn't. A specific tax paid from the start of work to death would enable us to restructure to meet present day needs. Personal taxation allowance and banding could be raised to off-set this.

GrannyGravy13

foxie48

Not saying it is GG13 but doctors are much better paid and have better working conditions, I've not said anything about the quality of the patient care.

Depends on where they work and the demographics.

House prices, food, clothing and particularly footwear are rising.

There is no middle ground High Street as we have in the U.K.

The Government has brought in regulations on who can buy property/land to try and slow the housing prices from rising.

Might look good on paper but the reality is somewhat different.

GrannyGravy I think anecdotal experience, though interesting, does not tell you how a whole nation lives. It is often called "the evidence of one".

My son and his family also live in Australia and I think his "evidence" would diametrically oppose that of your families. However, much of that may depend on income and opportunity, just as it would do here.

I don't actually understand what you mean when you say there is no "middle ground high street" so can't comment on that with regard to health care.

Nor can I guess what you mean by the introduction of laws regarding property. As far as I am aware, as a none national you cannot buy property without permission and you have to show that is going to be your residence. That seems a good idea to me.

Equally, I think, though I could not give you chapter and verse, that where an employer runs the pension scheme for the mandatory superannuation pension scheme , no more than a third of that can be invested in property. But again, that seems like a good safeguarding measure.

Making another country your home will never suit 100% of the people who try it.

Urmstongran

I think medics shouldn’t be allowed to strike. Same as the Police and the Armed Forces.

But they are not like the armed forces and police.

"The right to strike is 'a fundamental one enshrined in international human rights and labour law, and its protection is necessary in ensuring just, stable and democratic societies."

I wonder what sort of society those who want to take away our rights expect us to live in.

DaisyAnneReturns

Callistemon21

I don't actually think pay for doctors is as good in Australia as we may think and the cost of living is higher too.

I was taking that from an interview I heard on the radio with a doctor who was all organised to go and explaining why. He actually dwelt on the shorter hours more than the money.

I thought the pay is comparable but yes, the working conditions are probably far better.
And, of course, so many work in the private sector funded by insurance where pay is probably much better.

Urmstongran

I think medics shouldn’t be allowed to strike. Same as the Police and the Armed Forces.

Totally agree 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I think medics shouldn’t be allowed to strike. Same as the Police and the Armed Forces.

Whoops sorry I didn’t mean to tag your post Aveline, don’t know how it happened.

Aveline

*Foxie*- yes they did! Google it.

I know two doctors through work who now live and work in WA, they love it, because the staffing ratios are better, the hospitals are new and well equipped, they are paid much more, and perhaps most importantly, they feel valued. It’s not just better on paper, or not so many British doctors would go and not return.
My daughter cut her hand very badly when we were there last time, and she saw four doctors in total, three of them were Brits.

Foxie- yes they did! Google it.

foxie48

Not saying it is GG13 but doctors are much better paid and have better working conditions, I've not said anything about the quality of the patient care.

Depends on where they work and the demographics.

House prices, food, clothing and particularly footwear are rising.

There is no middle ground High Street as we have in the U.K.

The Government has brought in regulations on who can buy property/land to try and slow the housing prices from rising.

Might look good on paper but the reality is somewhat different.

Callistemon21

I don't actually think pay for doctors is as good in Australia as we may think and the cost of living is higher too.

I was taking that from an interview I heard on the radio with a doctor who was all organised to go and explaining why. He actually dwelt on the shorter hours more than the money.

Not saying it is GG13 but doctors are much better paid and have better working conditions, I've not said anything about the quality of the patient care.

foxie48 the Australian Healthcare system is predominantly private accept for the lowest paid, not really comparable.

Have just spent the day with two of our Aussie family who are over here, nothing but complaints about their system (both young by GN standards)

The grass isn’t always greener

Above not meant to be attached to Aveline's comment!

Aveline

BMA delegates voted to restrict the numbers of doctors in training. Selfish and short sighted.

British doctors earn an average of £70,000. But in Australia, they earn an average of a practice's income, which is normally on average somewhere between £150,000-200,000 per year. And they do it with much less mental stress and fatigue.22 Feb 2023
Lots of info on the internet if anyone can be bothered to look. Medics in Australia have much higher salaries and better working conditions and they are actively recruiting UK doctors now.