Court of appeal supports asylum seekers challenge

Given that the process for

- safe routes
- assessing asylum seekers without papers
- avoiding the need to travel through multiple countries

And
- the law on asylum seekers and safe countries
- the cost-benefit analysis of immigrants including refugees

has been explained - in detail - on numerous threads on Gransnet, and is, anyway, widely available information, I can’t help but wonder whether some people are just wilfully argumentative, or so xenophobic they refuse to engage with anything that challenges their worldview, or simply have trouble understanding the answers to repeatedly posed questions.

First identify your asylum seekers wwm.

12:27Iam64

The asylum seekers I met when working were people who showed initiative to get here. They wanted to work and we should encourage this.

They paid criminal people smuggling gangs to get here is that what you mean by showing initiative

Oreo

Germanshepherdsmum

Oh, spare me. They come here from France. A safe country. They have also crossed other safe countries. And many are economic migrants.
Answer - I want it as unattractive as possible.

Just what I was thinking

For someone who worked in the law, I’m surprised at you not understanding the law relating to asylum seekers.

Germanshepherdsmum

Oh, spare me. They come here from France. A safe country. They have also crossed other safe countries. And many are economic migrants.
Answer - I want it as unattractive as possible.

Just what I was thinking

Iam64

Thanks for the poem Gloryannie and your comments.

Why should people who have crossed Europe to get to France have to stay there? Being an island shouldn’t mean we take a lower number of asylum seekers/refugees than France and Germany. It’s an international problem and needs international attempts to identify and prosecute people smugglers.
The asylum seekers I met when working were people who showed initiative to get here. They wanted to work and we should encourage this.

Why shouldn’t they stay in France?
It’s not that we are an island ( reason to take less illegal immigrants/ asylum seekers/ economic migrants ) whatever you like to call them, it’s we are a much much smaller country than say France or Germany.
They may have shown initiative in getting here but we don’t know * anything* about them when they destroy papers and lie about where they come from.

Thanks for the poem Gloryannie and your comments.

Why should people who have crossed Europe to get to France have to stay there? Being an island shouldn’t mean we take a lower number of asylum seekers/refugees than France and Germany. It’s an international problem and needs international attempts to identify and prosecute people smugglers.
The asylum seekers I met when working were people who showed initiative to get here. They wanted to work and we should encourage this.

How do you identify people with no papers wwm? How do you know where to return them to if they have no papers? How do you even know they are ‘seeking asylum from death, torture etc’ if they have no papers?

So what is this plan you say Labour have?

Brilliant poem. Thank you.

Remember a large % of people who come are in the end classed as genuine. Yes, send purely economic migrants back, but fgs get on with the processing!

And set up UK processing places abroad where most needed.

Is that really too big and ask.
And if people can work, allow them to join the workforce.

And above all start seeing them as individual human beings not "invaders".

Nicenanny3

Today 11:14choughdancer

Whitewavemark2

The whole thing is and has always been a nonsense of course.

GIVE THEM SAFE PASSAGE.

For someone asking what Labour would do?

Employ a Home Secretary like Cooper who is not driven by dogma.

Work with France to set up a centre at somewhere like Coquelle and deal with applications there. Arrange a swift returns policy to those failed applications.

Employ extra staff at the HO to clear the backlog.

The smugglers would be stopped immediately.

It is obvious to anyone but the hard of thinking, or who wish to make capital out of “othering” migrants.

YES!!!

Giving them Safe Passage won't work, most have no ID or any sort of paperwork so would not be accepted, so the smuggling gangs would still be operating

Work with France 😊 they don't want them either. How would a swift returns policy work when they have mostly destroyed they ID/Passports where are you going to return them to

*As for Yvette Cooper she does a lot of talking just like Starmer and the Labour Party but have no real ideas or even any will to stop the boats. They want the Rwanda plan to fail, they have voted against everything to help stop the boats*

Re the safe passage and no documents. Of course it will work. Identifying the various applicants at say Coquille, is exactly what it will be set up for and safe passage will still be given.

Swift passage return for those whose application fails. Well, if it fails we can assume that they are not seeking asylum from death, torture etc and so can safely returned to their country of origin.

You haven’t been doing much listening/reading if you think Labour has no plan.

It would be easy to copy by the Tories as they have done the latest announcement over NHS staffing numbers - it is straight out of Labour policy which they tried to introduce a couple of years ago and the Tories voted it down.

An upcoming election certainly concentrates the governments mind doesn’t it?

Oh, spare me. They come here from France. A safe country. They have also crossed other safe countries. And many are economic migrants.
Answer - I want it as unattractive as possible.

Germanshepherdsmum

What do you do with people who can’t prove their identity and those who can’t speak English? How do you even know that they can safely be allowed into the community?

Yes, I remember quarantine though never subjected an animal to it. Animals don’t choose to come here. So-called asylum seekers do. I would prefer that that choice was made unattractive.

Most are in the community anyway GSM. They are housed in large cities in hotels. They have nothing to do during the day, although some do voluntary work. Their children go to local schools. Most want to work. It would be simple to issue a temporary work visa which restricted them to a certain area. As it is some of them abscond anyway to work for gang masters. You are left with the law abiding families.
As for the choice
Warsan Shire is a Somali British writer and her poem says it better than anything else

no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well

your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won't let you stay.

no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it's not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn't be going back.

you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied

no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough

the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off

or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important

no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i've become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.

How unattractive do you want it?

👏👏👏

Today 11:14choughdancer

Whitewavemark2

The whole thing is and has always been a nonsense of course.

GIVE THEM SAFE PASSAGE.

For someone asking what Labour would do?

Employ a Home Secretary like Cooper who is not driven by dogma.

Work with France to set up a centre at somewhere like Coquelle and deal with applications there. Arrange a swift returns policy to those failed applications.

Employ extra staff at the HO to clear the backlog.

The smugglers would be stopped immediately.

It is obvious to anyone but the hard of thinking, or who wish to make capital out of “othering” migrants.

YES!!!

Giving them Safe Passage won't work, most have no ID or any sort of paperwork so would not be accepted, so the smuggling gangs would still be operating

Work with France 😊 they don't want them either. How would a swift returns policy work when they have mostly destroyed they ID/Passports where are you going to return them to

As for Yvette Cooper she does a lot of talking just like Starmer and the Labour Party but have no real ideas or even any will to stop the boats. They want the Rwanda plan to fail, they have voted against everything to help stop the boats

What do you do with people who can’t prove their identity and those who can’t speak English? How do you even know that they can safely be allowed into the community?

Yes, I remember quarantine though never subjected an animal to it. Animals don’t choose to come here. So-called asylum seekers do. I would prefer that that choice was made unattractive.

Germanshepherdsmum

Picking fruit and veg is seasonal work Glorianny. What about the rest of the year?
Having a degree and speaking excellent English isn’t enough. For example a doctor, dentist or lawyer who qualified in Syria would not be able to practise here without further training and exams. This is not the ready-made workforce that some like to claim.

It isn't just doctors and nurses we have a shortage of GSM. The hospitality industry is desperate for people, and most asylum seekers would take any job and many employers want to employ them. I wonder if you have any idea how soul destroying it is for a person to live for an extended period in limbo, unable to work, unable to provide for their family, unable to discover how or when their application for asylum is progressing.
From your name I assume you care for dogs, well remember the hated quarantine system that dogs had to go into when they arrived here? Well this is a similar system but for human beings and it isn't for a fixed period, it can be for years.

They are a burden we cannot afford. I endorse what SB said.
Trouble is, curtaintwitcher, the only way to refuse entry is to escort the sinking boats back to France. We can’t physically stop them but I totally support any way of preventing them from staying here.

“Sending the surplus”!!!!! They are people not bags of sugar!

I hope you all heard the speech by Suella Braverman yesterday, because what she said was absolutely true. Our generosity is being abused and it's way past time to put a stop to the whole thing.
We have no reason to feel guilty about telling the world that we have done our bit for foreigners, but this country just cannot cope with any more.
Sending the surplus to another country is not the solution. Simply refusing to allow them in is the only solution.

Whitewavemark2

The whole thing is and has always been a nonsense of course.

GIVE THEM SAFE PASSAGE.

For someone asking what Labour would do?

Employ a Home Secretary like Cooper who is not driven by dogma.

Work with France to set up a centre at somewhere like Coquelle and deal with applications there. Arrange a swift returns policy to those failed applications.

Employ extra staff at the HO to clear the backlog.

The smugglers would be stopped immediately.

It is obvious to anyone but the hard of thinking, or who wish to make capital out of “othering” migrants.

YES!!!

There is far more to the judgement, but that related to your area under question.

Ww2 thanks for Lord Underhill’s judgement. I thought that where an asylum seeker was refused permission to remain that a third safe country would be offered. It wouldn’t follow that an asylum seeker would be returned to their country of origin or country deemed to be unsafe. I don’t know if in those circumstances a refused refugee could apply to the Uk?

Germanshepherdsmum

Picking fruit and veg is seasonal work Glorianny. What about the rest of the year?
Having a degree and speaking excellent English isn’t enough. For example a doctor, dentist or lawyer who qualified in Syria would not be able to practise here without further training and exams. This is not the ready-made workforce that some like to claim.

No - it is, but you want to argue that it isn’t because allowing asylum seekers who appear to have a good case - to work, pay tax and contribute to their country of choice does not suit your agenda.

By showing that they are willing to contribute to this country’s wellbeing will boost their application I would have thought.

Picking fruit and veg is seasonal work Glorianny. What about the rest of the year?
Having a degree and speaking excellent English isn’t enough. For example a doctor, dentist or lawyer who qualified in Syria would not be able to practise here without further training and exams. This is not the ready-made workforce that some like to claim.

151 Albanians have entered the U.K. this year.