Riots in France

vegansrock

As does the U.K.,*nanadana*. Social media these days can account for the swift spreading of such disorder. Brixton, Tottenham, the Black Lives Matter protests, all sparked by police shooting of a black person. There are no- go estates in the U.K. where few outsiders would venture, particularly after dark. France, USA, U.k. are all unequal societies. Of course there are those who join in for a bit of excitement, but they wouldn’t join in if they had a bigger stake in the wider society.

Agreed, Vegansrock, but clearly not to the same scale.. at least not yet. Getting on for 3,000 arrests now, and counting.

It’s not a racist problem it’s a discipline problem, Cardiff riots were not race related, because police were alledged to be “chasing” teenagers, riots were triggered.

The police are widely demonized, they are there to protect us when criminals attack us, yet we allow widespread disobedience to go in punished. Teachers and parents have no effective remedy for bad behavior so disruptive children become disruptive teens that are out of control.

This is what OUR society has achieved, children that disobey orders from authority because there are no consequences. Police are the “enemy” because they prevent us from breaking the law.

Well there appears to be a considerable discipline problem in the Met for example.

The influence of parenting on developing children and adolescents isn’t being denied so far as I can see. What is being challenged is the attempt to blame parents when their child misbehaves, acts out, or gets involved in substance misuse and/or crime.
Why does one child in a sibling group of five stand out as being more difficult to care for than the others. Many factors influence and simply blaming parents, especially ‘single mothers’ is unkind unfair and simplistic.

Obeying orders is an interesting debate, it's actually about knowing what orders to disobey.

Galaxy

Obeying orders is an interesting debate, it's actually about knowing what orders to disobey.

Orders from authority are there to be obeyed for the benefit of all, because if we select which laws apply to us we have chaos.

In many places that is what is happening

The French have a tradition of coming out on the streets stretching back to the Revolution of 1789.

I am old enough to remember the student riots of 1968. Read all about it at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_68

We have had a home in France since 1991. In that time we have had petrol strikes and people manning the barricades 3 or 4 times. One set of strikes was something to do with McDonalds or something it represented and we had dismembered beef carcasses strewn along the local town bypass.

Our experience is, that how ever much violence is found in certain limited centres - and there have been riots in ourlocal town, as visitors and foreigners, we will be shepherded through any road blocks, redirected courteously, and generally treated well, providing we give a vague impression that we are positive about them.

French riots are very French and they are rather proud of their reputation for coming on the streets for any reason and they see them as an entirely domestic matter, not affecting anyone in the country who is not French.

We are off to France, en famille, in three weeks. The only thing likely to cause us any inconvenience will be if Brittany Ferries crews go on strike.

Sarah Everard obeyed orders. They were orders by an evil dangerous man. They were also 'orders' that with hindsight were imposed by a deeply corrupt government.

M0nica

The French have a tradition of coming out on the streets stretching back to the Revolution of 1789.

I am old enough to remember the student riots of 1968. Read all about it at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_68

We have had a home in France since 1991. In that time we have had petrol strikes and people manning the barricades 3 or 4 times. One set of strikes was something to do with McDonalds or something it represented and we had dismembered beef carcasses strewn along the local town bypass.

Our experience is, that how ever much violence is found in certain limited centres - and there have been riots in ourlocal town, as visitors and foreigners, we will be shepherded through any road blocks, redirected courteously, and generally treated well, providing we give a vague impression that we are positive about them.

French riots are very French and they are rather proud of their reputation for coming on the streets for any reason and they see them as an entirely domestic matter, not affecting anyone in the country who is not French.

We are off to France, en famille, in three weeks. The only thing likely to cause us any inconvenience will be if Brittany Ferries crews go on strike.

I totally agree MOnica.
I am old enough to remember the riots of 1968 too.
I got sprayed by a water cannon in the streets of the left bank. 😮
For clarification, I was not rioting, but in Paris attending a language course just before A level and university. It still made a very deep impression on me and my French friends and neighbours are always amazed that I was actually there!

We were caught in a large demonstration by the French union CGT in 2016 near Montparnasse station, water cannon were in use and the armed police reminded me of Robocop.
We missed our train, caught another full of CGT members with beer, wine and smoking on a non smoking train no one else could even get water on.
The labour laws being challenged were subsequently adopted.

Sorry, Galaxy but Sarah Everard did not obey orders; if she had she would not have been visiting a friend's house and walking back home alone.
Tragic but true.

She obeyed his orders he used the covid guidance to get her to come to him.

The orders around being outside were nonsense (I mean in general not her case) and should have been challenged more.

What I don't understand is the copycat violence and rioting that takes place as a result in other, fairly peaceful cities. Fair enough, if the rioters in the suburbs north of Paris want to set fire to shops and vehicles, but when other bourgeios cities like Rennes and Nantes join in, it shows how widespread the discontent in France is amongst certain groups. I agree with what Macron said in his speech that social media is also responsible for whipping up unrest and encouraging violence.

I recall the riots in 2011 (?)in Britain, and when the looters had been arrested and charged on court many were found to have decent homes, jobs and families. They were simply taking advantage of a mob situation to steal.
It isn't fair for anyone to want to set fire to shops and vehicles wherever they live, whatever the situation; the owners were not responsible for the death of this youth.

What I don't understand is the copycat violence and rioting that takes place as a result in other, fairly peaceful cities.

The answer is because that is the way the French people do it, and have done for the last 250 years. We write letters to newspapers, protest to our MPs, come out on a march. The French riot, and citizens across the country say 'Way hay' when they hear of protests starting and nip into their local market town to join in.

One of the local farmers near our home regularly has boards at his farm on the quiet country road lambasting the government, any French government for their perceived evil ways and policies

My DIL is French. She cannot understand why Brits are so passive. If something riles her, she goes and gets it sorted (not with a riot, I hasten to add!). She tackles things front-on, no pussy-footing around. She states what she wants and she generally gets it with her direct approach.

Admirable approach for sure SueDonim.
I wish I had it!

The white French rarely consider black or brown French people as “French”. They’re always considered foreigners and treated as such, even if their families have been in the country for generations. The dislike and division goes both ways. In comparison, white British are far more welcoming and have provided a culture of integration.

M0nica

^What I don't understand is the copycat violence and rioting that takes place as a result in other, fairly peaceful cities.^

The answer is because that is the way the French people do it, and have done for the last 250 years. We write letters to newspapers, protest to our MPs, come out on a march. The French riot, and citizens across the country say 'Way hay' when they hear of protests starting and nip into their local market town to join in.

One of the local farmers near our home regularly has boards at his farm on the quiet country road lambasting the government, any French government for their perceived evil ways and policies

The answer is because that is the way the French people do it, and have done for the last 250 years.

I don't think this is the culture of the immigrants in the banlieues though. More likely the result of of years - and in some instances decades - of marginalisation and alienation caused by lack of education, impoverishment and prejudice against them by some native white French individuals. Not to mention the heavy-handedness of the Police in some instances.

This is the problem if large numbers of disadvantaged people are ghettoised. And, of course, there are the criminal elements who will take advantage of such situations. It happens on a lesser scale here, too.

Just to re-assure everyone, my quiet life (in France continues without a sniff of unrest or violence or even anyone talking about it.
All this is rioting is innercity problems as always.
My sympathies lie with the Police , nobody riots when one of
them is 'executed' as the DM calls it . They continue to do their jobs, upholding the law for which I am thankfull.

SueDonim

My DIL is French. She cannot understand why Brits are so passive. If something riles her, she goes and gets it sorted (not with a riot, I hasten to add!). She tackles things front-on, no pussy-footing around. She states what she wants and she generally gets it with her direct approach.

I believe differences in aggression is what makes people in many other countries hard to understand in many instances.

French people seem directly aggressive, sometimes to me, where people here would be passive (aggressive) in their attitudes and ways.

People view things through their own lens.

Example unrelated to the French, American asking a Brit: "What do you call the 4th of July (their holiday of independence)?" -- Well, this year we call it Tuesday. "Are you upset still over the end to that war?" -- Well, no it's been over 200 years - we keep calm, carry on. You've a party about war in the 1700s.

The French just view things and act differently to us.

I wouldn’t call my dil aggressive! She’s direct, knows what she is asking for and saying it loud and clear. She doesn’t spend any time angsting about things like Brits do, if she sees a job needing doing, it gets done.

Halfpint
The residents of L’Hay -les Roses were being interviewed for comments on the Mayor’s house being attacked.
Everyone said it’s a very quiet area wher nothing happens.
Hardly describes inner city.

I remember it clearly as the riots ruined my weekend 😥
I was due to take the ferry to Calais and crew on a yacht coming back to the uk.
They stooped the ferries but they were running to Oostende so I went there to see friends.