Fifteen year old girl who killed her newborn baby

No mention of the baby's father.

On reading a few posts, like many, my immediate reaction was sympathy for the girl. I had not read any newspaper reports until that time. As I gleaned information from GN posts regarding the details I began to revise my opinion.

I strongly agree with those who have pointed out that as none of us sat through the trial each day we are not in a position to make a balanced judgement.

As a generalisation, but not specifically in relation to this case, by the time the reports (on court cases in particular), hit the pages, they are often either sanitised or sensationalised, so often we only read the version that is biased towards selling more newspapers.

I am left feeling sad that so many factors contributed to this tragedy which resulted in the horrific death of an innocent child.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why nanna8? Do you know something about the evidence before the court that we don’t?

In the UK being seen to means beaten up - or worse.

Ohh- I didn’t know that and I apologise. I certainly would never, ever advocate violence ! Thanks for the info GSM

I think what worries me about this case is that whilst she concealed her pregnancy from everyone around her she made no attempt to conceal the body of the child. This does seem very odd to me. I also wonder why the case took so long to come to court, perhaps the chronic shortage of criminal defence lawyers? This is a very poorly paid area of the law as most of it is legal aid work so unfortunately it is possible that she didn't get the most effective representation. Just an observation and she may have had excellent representation but once the jury had decided it was murder, the judge's hand were effectively tied.

The girl is 15, so she was vulnerable, 15 year olds don’t think clearly etc.

The boys age 10, who killed James Bulger were - evil,

She killed a baby. There are lots of excuses being made for why she killed her baby, but none are acceptable, in my opinion.

She killed a baby.

She did have excellent representation foxie. King’s Counsel. Putting together a case like this and obtaining all the necessary expert opinions takes time.

I am not questioning the verdict - I am sure that the jury had proper legal directions and were party to all the available evidence that led to their conclusion.

My question is about the sentence. We need to ask why a child might behave in this way and what steps could have been in place to help her with her difficult life. A child who has sex from the age of 13 to get people to like her is a vulnerable child.

12 years is a huge chunk of her life at a very young age and it is important that we ask what purpose this serves. Are the public vulnerable to danger from her? Will it advance her rehabilitation in any way?

Murder is a horrific crime and cannot be treated lightly; but in a society where children can finish up in this sort of desperate state there is more at stake here. We need to ask how such vulnerable children might be picked up and helped. We need to ask what might best serve the interests of society and this now adult who was a vulnerable child at the time of the crime.

I would also say that those who are taking sides (baby or child mother) miss the point: feeling shocked and sad that a baby has died does not mean we cannot also be concerned for the child culprit and wish to see changes in place that protect vulnerable children like her.

There is a mandatory life sentence for murder. The judge will decide how long the convicted person must serve before being eligible for parole based on all the evidence - aggravating factors and mitigating factors. The judge will have heard far more about her background than we know.

nanna8

I don’t know. I meant it should be challenged and a re-trial - they shouldn’t get away with what they have decided

What do you mean “they shouldn’t get away with what they decided”?

They would have sat through all the evidence and deliberated for several hours or days before arriving at their decision. You can’t just say juries shouldn’t get away with it because you don’t agree with their verdict.

I sas the pictures of this girl posing and pouting for SM as they all do these days. I also saw her smirking one day as she walked into court. I read about this case from day one and she wasn’t from an abused and neglected background. The judge remarked on the lies she had told in order to excuse herself. Her mother stood by her and the father’s death shortly after this coming to light was attributed to shock at what had happened.

What she did to that poor baby is inexcusable. She doesn’t have learning difficulties, wasn’t living in terror of her parents finding out. The sentence may seem harsh but what she did was horrific.

Here is what purports to be a transcript of the judgement, albeit not an official one.

www.itv.com/news/central/2023-06-26/judges-remarks-as-teenage-mum-jailed-for-killing-newborn

The judge seems to me to have dealt with sentencing sensitively and fairly.

My response didn't reflect my feelings for the poor little baby , who never had a chance in life .
But surely this girl has serious mental health issues .

I can't begin to imagine how I would have reacted to having a baby at 15 .

The very idea of sex was terrifying as my mother was so strict .
Everytime , I left the house I had a lecture on the dangers of boys touching me and an interrogation when I returned .
0n one occasion , my mother told me , get pregnant and we won't be able to get rid if it as you're so soft and over fond of babies and children .

My heart goes out to this girl and to her baby .

You will see from the judgement that she did not have serious mental health issues.

I’d argue that any child who commits such an act undoubtedly has mental health issues. It is easy to just blame her because what she did was really horrific but, come on, it is not normal and no normal child would do that. She needs help and a lot of it, not prison. The Danish people seem to have the right idea about children and crime.

Agreed.

I'm not in favour of copying the Americans but they do have one policy which we would do well to copy. Any unwanted infants can be left at a fire station or police station. The child will be cared for and no questions asked. There really is no excuse for either dumping babies or killing them.

I find it really troubling that whenever someone does anything a ‘normal’ person would consider evil they must be mentally ill.

Human beings are incredibly complex and we don’t all think the same. Some people enjoy quite extreme pain in order to become sexually aroused, others enjoy inflicting extreme pain for the same reason. I, personally, find both behaviours abnormal. Are these people mentally ill? A psychiatrist would say no; just a quirk in their personality. There are lots of behaviours I and others find strange or disturbing but that doesn’t make someone ill, just outside of what’s considered normal.

Does hating people of a different skin colour mean you’re mentally ill or does it mean you’re a nasty racist? Does being a bullying, coercive control freak of a husband mean you’re mentally ill? I doubt any of you would think so. So just because a 15 year old girl murders her newborn son it doesn’t follow that she’s ill.

FWIW I thought the sentence harsh but I didn’t hear all the evidence and judges have to follow guidelines and if she was found guilty of murder the judge has to sentence accordingly. A shame that it was 4 years after the event.

All my sorrow is for that poor innocent baby.

I was surprised by the long delay between the event and the trial.

Has anyone read the link to the judgement which I posted?

@GSM,
Yes, I read the judgement, and think the Judge made a sensible and reasoned decision.
Paris Mayo could have asked for help at any point, but it is my firm belief that she concealed both her pregnancy and the birth of her son as she had already decided to 'dispose' of that poor child.
Many teenagers have a tough life, but they don't murder their own children in such a horrific and heartless manner.

It's always tempting when we hear of a particularly horrendous crime to assume that the perpetrator must have "mental health issues". I believe that's because what has happened is so very far beyond our understanding, that we can't imagine that any "sane" person could possibly behave in that way. Unfortunately, criminal cases prove time and time again that there is more often than not no mental instability involved, as proven by expert, professionally qualified witnesses, and that the perpetrator simply has a criminal mindset, which facilitates behaviour which, in its most extreme form could simply be described as "evil". I'm not suggesting that this applies in this particular case, as I simply don't know enough about it. However, its relevance will certainly have been carefully and expertly considered as the case unfolded.

Chocolatelovinggran

I was surprised by the long delay between the event and the trial.

Was she judged as a child or an adult?
She was 15 when she was pregnant but 19 by the time of the trial.

Do other people who were children when they kill someone receive such long terms of imprisonment?

Luckygirl3 Wed 05-Jul-23 09:42:17

A measured and compassionate post.
The poor baby suffered horribly and didn't deserve to die like that but what desperation drove her to do it?

I have read the judgement and my conclusion is that the judge acted harshly, or heavy handedly as the OP says.

He acknowledges that the mother was traumatised by the experience of giving birth alone. But he does not conclude that she panicked, esp when her brother returned home which seems obvious. She was 15. He does not consider the possibility that she refused to consider what was happening to her. Hoped against hope that it would all go away.

She need not have had underlying mental health problems to have been beside herself in that situation (interesting expression when you think).

From what is said of her background she was not 'neglected' in the usual sense of the word, but her family life was far from normal. It seems that her general wellbeing was overlooked and her self-esteem was low.

So, no, I can't agree that the judge's summary was fair and even-handed. If remanding her to a secure psychiatric hospital was an option I think it should have been taken.