Transgender-paedophi le-66-spared-jail-ca se-delayed. don't know where to send .

There shouldn't need to be additional accommodation for these men, just because they say they're not men.
They are still part of the number of male prisoners who would be there anyway.
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of prison authorities to reorganise their accommodation to sort this out without inflicting males on the female prisoners.

I guess this unit, opened in 2019, is still going - attached to a women's prison, tho, with the men no doubt recorded as female .

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47434730

Yes Doodledog and that’s a good point Smileless2012. It would be worth collecting data on that if they made that decision.

I agree Doodledog that prisoners should be housed by sex and if this were to be undisputed, no doubt there would be a reduction in the number of people who between their arrest and going to trial, declare they're trans gender.

Good point. I don't think that trans units are the answer. Prisoners should be housed by sex.

How many people is this likely to affect anyway? If 0.5% of the population is trans (government figures) and 136 people in every 100,000 goes to jail in England and Wales (also government figures) the number of people who are both trans and criminal must be vanishingly small.

According to the HMPPS Offenders Report, there were 2.9 transgender prisoners reported per 1,000 prisoners in custody on 31st March 2022, which is a rise from 2.5% in 2021. This seems to mean that there is a higher percentage of transpeople who break the law than of the rest of the population (or that a growing number of prisoners are suddenly 'identifying' as trans). All the same, at a time when there are so many problems in the prison system (drugs, overcrowding etc) it seems to me a disproportionate response to build special accommodation for a small number of people whose 'feelings' separate them from the rest.

Doodledog

M0nica

Why can't there be a specialised trans unit in a prison? There are not a huge number of Trans prisoners, it ought to be possible to have a unit where they are held, separately from men and women.

Now there are many very old prisoners on lifetime tariffs they have special units dealing with those with dementia and other conditions of extreme age.

Would these special trans units be new, modern, purpose-built ones, or would new modern units be built for existing prisoners who 'identify' in line with their sex, and the old, crumbling overcrowded cells be used for the 'special flowers' who want to be treated differently from the herd?

I'd want to know that before answering, really. I am wary of adding to the special status of trans-identifying people, who already have exactly the same rights as the rest of us, as well as the protections offered by being covered by anti-discrimination laws and a powerful pressure group behind them, because their 'feelings' entitle them to anything they want.

I understand that prisoners are often moved from one prison to another at different stages in their term, and that different prison units specialise in dealing with different crimes. So if all were trans, a prisoner on a 25 year term for murder couldn’t be appropriately housed with somebody in for a sexual offence, or somebody in for a robbery at knifepoint, or who had committed fraud, or whatever other crime. Therefore you would need to develop specialist units at a large number of prisons to cater for all the different types of cases. Does anybody have an idea of how many of these prisoners there are in the system, recognising that they identify in different ways too?

M0nica

Why can't there be a specialised trans unit in a prison? There are not a huge number of Trans prisoners, it ought to be possible to have a unit where they are held, separately from men and women.

Now there are many very old prisoners on lifetime tariffs they have special units dealing with those with dementia and other conditions of extreme age.

Would these special trans units be new, modern, purpose-built ones, or would new modern units be built for existing prisoners who 'identify' in line with their sex, and the old, crumbling overcrowded cells be used for the 'special flowers' who want to be treated differently from the herd?

I'd want to know that before answering, really. I am wary of adding to the special status of trans-identifying people, who already have exactly the same rights as the rest of us, as well as the protections offered by being covered by anti-discrimination laws and a powerful pressure group behind them, because their 'feelings' entitle them to anything they want.

Why can't there be a specialised trans unit in a prison? There are not a huge number of Trans prisoners, it ought to be possible to have a unit where they are held, separately from men and women.

Now there are many very old prisoners on lifetime tariffs they have special units dealing with those with dementia and other conditions of extreme age.

Alan (Sarah Jane) Baker is still on probation after his 30 year prison sentence.

Yet we are told that gender and sex are different things and that no-one is trying to confuse the two - 🤔

😢I received a really nasty tweet for using the phrase women of either sex.
Evidently that implies that some women are not female.

The law and justice are often two very different things - as is demonstrated here.

Sarah-Jane does that individual imagine giving themselves two feminine names it will make them twice as girly, as Susie Eddie Izzard is prone to coo when they morph into that mode It does somewhat put the kibosh on the girly image, the moniker Sarah-Jane conjures up by threatening to punch TERF's lights out in an almost, eh rather blokey Grant and Phil Mitchell sort of way. Somehow it also slightly belies the message of inclusiveness! and Be Kind and all the other disingenuous bollocks that the public are being fed on how we are expected to embrace all of this brave new world these days! "RINGO WHERE ARE YOU? there's an urgent need of Peace and Love required by a section of the trans women fraternity, ooops! maybe that should be the trans women sorority (the non cis version of course!)

Sounds about right from a male POV.
Mansplained away, that means they’re saying
You referring to me by the pronoun which reflects my *sex entitles me and my supporters to inflict physical violence on you.*

Baker is featuring in the 'bonus hole' thread too.
Here's video of what he said -

youtu.be/lsw3pdpxf64

It's completely disgusting of Clive Lewis MP to suggest that it's an equal exchange of threats.
We repeatedly see headlines of outrage about 'misgendering'.
If there were actual threats of violence from GC people towards trans people, you can be sure it would be endlessly publicised.

Maybe I should have started a new thread on Sarah Jane

Daily Mail report today that Sarah Jane Baker, a trans activist, spoke at the Pride March in London yesterday. She advised people to ‘punch them in the face’ if they saw a Terf. Baker was released from prison in 2019 after serving 30 years for attempted murder.
These aggressive trans women alienate people from the cause they claim to support.

, Clive Lewis, Labour mp “advocating violence against others is wrong… but as you’ll be aware violent language and actions are not unique to one side on this issue’. He doesn’t seem to understand that male violence to women and girls from men isn’t a ‘both sides’ issue.
I’ve never heard of feminists threatening to rape trans women to death but friends of mine attending a women’s conference had those threats from trans women activits

Absolutely!!

MerylStreep
Hear hear!

Slightly off topic but I’m so happy for this woman who gave the 🖕to Stonewall and won her case.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12279791/Gender-critical-barrister-Allison-Bailey-wins-substantial-damages-chambers.html

Mollygo

Transmen who want to have sex with gay men may want to present their vagina as a 'bonus hole' i.e. something not usually available to gay men.
Transmen are female. Any sexual relationship with a male would be heterosexual-so why bother wanting to be a transman.
Implying that gay men want intercourse with a female who says she’s a man is like saying lesbians should be obliged to accept TW as sexual partners.

Of course. But that's what's going on anyway.
I'm sure the creation of confusion is deliberate and it's working well, since people who claim to be trans are being pandered to everywhere by people who should know better but who seem to have lost their grip on reality.

Mollygo

Transmen who want to have sex with gay men may want to present their vagina as a 'bonus hole' i.e. something not usually available to gay men.
Transmen are female. Any sexual relationship with a male would be heterosexual-so why bother wanting to be a transman.
Implying that gay men want intercourse with a female who says she’s a man is like saying lesbians should be obliged to accept TW as sexual partners.

I think non-binary are also included in the group for whom this substitute word has been 'developed', though. And gays and lesbians are not always exclusively gay, they can also be non-binary.

But I'm sure they are all aware of what a vagina is and won't be confused or "offended" if a medical professional inadvertently uses the correct terminology for a body part that some now want to refer to as a "hole"... of some kind or other.

Transmen who want to have sex with gay men may want to present their vagina as a 'bonus hole' i.e. something not usually available to gay men.
Transmen are female. Any sexual relationship with a male would be heterosexual-so why bother wanting to be a transman.
Implying that gay men want intercourse with a female who says she’s a man is like saying lesbians should be obliged to accept TW as sexual partners.

Transmen who want to have sex with gay men may want to present their vagina as a 'bonus hole' i.e. something not usually available to gay men

Oh ok! Well they can do that if the like but I dont see why it has to be used as standard in conversation with Trans men. What about trans men who want a relationship with a woman?

Honestly it just seems an unnecessary complication of the facts of a situation. ie some trans men still have a vagina and some don't. They can inform anyone they are talking to what they like it called if that is what they wish to do. I could understand better if the advice had been that staff ask a trans nan what they would like their body parts called if that was relevant to the specifics of a discussion.

If the word vagina is "upsetting" to the trans community - then they need psychiatric help.

Trans men might not like the fact that they have one - but that is their problem, not ours.

Trans women may have one constructed. In which case, presumably, the word vagina will have been used at some point during their medical appointments.

The trans community know what a vagina is.

Referring to women's genitalia as a "hole" is typical male misogyny. A way of dehumanising women to make them less threatening to male insecurity.

I'm trying to work out why the word vagina would be upsetting within the trans community. A Trans woman would either not have one or if they had surgery would have a coñstructed one which presumably they want.

A trans man will either have one or if they have had surgery will have a constructed penis. And if they haven't had surgery and so still have a vagina why would they see that as a "bonus"?

I just cant work out the logic of the "new name" frankly regardless of the renaming per se!!

Transwomen want the word 'vagina' for themselves and for expressions such as 'front hole' to be used for women's vaginas.

Transmen who want to have sex with gay men may want to present their vagina as a 'bonus hole' i.e. something not usually available to gay men.

Sorry that's quite crude but that's how it is.