Malnutrition in England

My children can cook too Blondiescot - especially my son. They know about good nutrition as well.

We keep hearing how time short everyone is. How is it, therefore that the average person spends 5 hours a day watching a screen? This does not include work screen time?
www.uswitch.com/mobiles/screentime-report/

And if 'young people of today can't cook', whose fault is that? Did many of us on here not raise that generation? Both of my adult children can cook and indeed do cook most of their meals from scratch because that's how they were brought up.
I'm not seeking to blame anyone, by the way - just pointing out that it isn't always as straightforward as it may appear.

Intensive farming has also meant that foods are not as nutritious as they were. Your modern carrot is not as healthy as a carrot was 70 years ago.

^ I get so fed up with blaming mothers! ^

Bijoux was talking about a single mother who was interviewed, not mothers in general.

1) if you are banding blame about why is it just mothers who get blamed! Fathers are also capable of cooking !!!

jenpax
bijou did say a single mother of three. Quite often the people who are struggling are mothers left on their own and they do have a struggle, trying their best.

Presumably that father isn't around every day to take his turn at cooking.

I know men can cook just as well.

Well said jenpax, Casdon and icanhandthemback.

There are many more factors involved than "young people can't cook*.

Bijou

A little while ago the BBC interviewed a single mother of three who said she couldn’t afford to pay her bills. She admitted that they lived on take away food.
When I was a child in the 1920s, 30, and 40, we never ate out, and the only ready cooked meal we had was fish and chips now and then. School meals were well balanced meat and two veg and there was a third of a pint of milk free.
Nowadays children would not be addicted to fast food if they weren’t introduced to it to start with.

I get so fed up with blaming mothers!
1) if you are banding blame about why is it just mothers who get blamed! Fathers are also capable of cooking !!!
2) so many parents work hugely tiring long hours and are literally too exhausted to chop boil etc at the end of the working day. I am someone who is often too tired to cook properly for myself with a full time job, caring responsibilities for two adults and two ASD children and a toddler every day! and as I dont tend to buy takeaways, it usually leads to me skipping eating at all! That doesn't effect the children obviously, but is still not ideal and is a sign of the pressurised society we live in!
3) the cost of fresh food is often really huge especially if your only source of shopping is the local (expensive) corner shops and a cheap burger and chips will be less than the stuff from the shop! Those of us who live near to large shops and or have a car are very privileged.

What we need is
1) everyone have access to fairly priced groceries
2) proper low cost public transport systems so people can reach and use a wider variety of shops
3) decent levels of benefits that are inflation linked and that allow low income families a decent standard of living
4) properly funded child care so working parents can afford to work for something other than a nursery bill and recognition that with increasing the state pension age there are less grandparents free to look after children while their parents are at work as we the grandparents have to continue to work

MaizieD

^I wonder if the pandemic is related in that people let their conditions get worse^

There's no noticeable acceleration of the admissions rate post C19. The rise is steady over the whole 2008 to 2023 period.

By the sounds of it there are lots and lots of impacting factors, which is going to make it tough for initiatives to have an impact. There must be a percentage that is going to prove very difficult to eradicate too with an aging population. There’s a Malnutrition Taskforce, and publicity on Age UK, hopefully for older people we will see raised awareness as a consequence.

growstuff

I agree with you Maizie. It's the increase which is puzzling. Apparently, the government itself holds records for overweight/obesity, but not malnutrition. People can, of course, be both overweight and malnourished. The NHS itself doesn't appear to have (or at least doesn't publish) the underlying causes of malnutrition. In some cases, there are health issues, such as not being able to swallow or absorb nutrients, but I would expect those health issues to have remained constant, so the increase remains unexplained.

Given that the patients tend to be older, it doesn't appear that the "young can't cook and only eat take-aways" claim is correct.

Another point worth mentioning is that these figures are based on hospital admissions. Charities working with food insecurity reckon that the cases of malnutrition are many times higher than these figures show. I'm concerned that there seems to be so little hard data and so much speculation, much of it blaming the malnourished for their own predicament.

Just look at the crisis in care for the elderly/disabled and you will have your answer. It is useless trying to get Social Care or support in many areas. In our area, the Adult Social Services agree that my daughter needs help in producing meals for her and her family but haven't got the budget. Those with medical problems aren't getting the financial help from the CHC who have changed their framework so that they are only helping those next to death's door even though legally they should be paying out well before this. People don't always know what care they are entitled to so don't ask for it and it isn't advertised well because nobody wants to pay for it.
There appears to be an explosion in mental health problems with young people where food is the only control they have along with more neuro-diverse people who often have sensory issues with food. Getting help is a real struggle and by the time you get it, so much damage has been done.
In both areas, my family have experience and we have been completely taken aback by the struggle to get early intervention which would have probably cost the country less than waiting for the need of in-patient care with lengthy treatment.

How many people have come to live here in the last 15 years?
Increased population often doing low paid work and many working illegally as well in nail bars and restaurants may account for increased malnutrition, tho I expect the fact that people are living longer , so an increased elderly population as well, not eating properly as well as all the many other reasons.

jane1956

too many mothers more concerned with nails and pink/blue hair. They buy ready mashed potatoes don't know how to buy fresh meat and veg. Don't know how to shop for reduced items. Too easy to order deliveroo et al

Wow judgemental, sweeping generalisation!

Combatting the increasing prevelance of scurvy, ricketts or diabetes 2 which none of you have mentioned could be done, for the next generation at least, by teaching school children to cook!

I believe in most countries of the western world, only those of us who are over retirement age were actually taught to cook and even amongst my comtempories, a lot of people never make a meal from scratch.

Some buy ready prepared frozen meals, many buy pre-frozen vegetables, which quite frankly, taste nothing like fresh ones and have a lower nutrional value.

Teaching children to cook and to do so healthily could mean that the next generation drops fast food, tinned foods, pre-frozen food and entire pre-frozen meals, most of which contain far too much salt, sugar and other additives and are generally speaking not so good for you.

Yes, eating fruit is healthy, but with the prices fresh fruit is sold for, no-one can afford to eat it every day, a fact that those who advise on a healthy diet consistently ignore.

I agree with you Maizie. It's the increase which is puzzling. Apparently, the government itself holds records for overweight/obesity, but not malnutrition. People can, of course, be both overweight and malnourished. The NHS itself doesn't appear to have (or at least doesn't publish) the underlying causes of malnutrition. In some cases, there are health issues, such as not being able to swallow or absorb nutrients, but I would expect those health issues to have remained constant, so the increase remains unexplained.

Given that the patients tend to be older, it doesn't appear that the "young can't cook and only eat take-aways" claim is correct.

Another point worth mentioning is that these figures are based on hospital admissions. Charities working with food insecurity reckon that the cases of malnutrition are many times higher than these figures show. I'm concerned that there seems to be so little hard data and so much speculation, much of it blaming the malnourished for their own predicament.

These points are not making any excuses for the statistics, just giving an illustration of what can be behind them.

I'm sure that we all know what lies behind them, HPQ.

What we don't know is why, in a supposedly rich country, the number of admissions for malnutrition, or malnutrition related illness, has been dramatically increasing over the past 15 years.

I thought that was the point of this thread...

A little while ago the BBC interviewed a single mother of three who said she couldn’t afford to pay her bills. She admitted that they lived on take away food.
When I was a child in the 1920s, 30, and 40, we never ate out, and the only ready cooked meal we had was fish and chips now and then. School meals were well balanced meat and two veg and there was a third of a pint of milk free.
Nowadays children would not be addicted to fast food if they weren’t introduced to it to start with.

maddyone

Every child in the country gets free school meals up to the end of Year 2. All children from nursery to their fifth birthday get free milk daily. Every child in the country in primary schools receives a piece of free fruit each day. Children who live in low income families are eligible for free school meals throughout their school career, unless their family situation changes and they are no longer a low income family. Add to that food banks where low income families can get free food. Why give children who do not live in a low income family free school meals?
If children are malnourished in Britain today it is unlikely to be because they don’t get free school meals (have you actually seen the quality of school meals provided? I have and it’s pretty dire!) Perhaps City/County Councils not giving licences to more and more junk food outlets such as certain burger or pizza places might help as this type of food contains little nourishment and is available on almost every street corner these days. I’m concerned about the quality of many children’s diet, not the amount of calories they consume.

My DGC do not get free fruit or milk! Yes children up to end of key stage 1 get free school lunches but not sure why you think free milk and fruit is universally provided!!

My late MiL likely had malnutrition; she just didn't feel like cooking for herself, and unless she ate with us, she made do with a cup of tea and a bit of cake to fill her up. After a fall, admission to a residential home turned life around for her with regular, small meals. Also, my late DM had a B12 deficiency which is quite common in the elderly and leads to complete loss of appetite.

These points are not making any excuses for the statistics, just giving an illustration of what can be behind them.

Totally agree with jane1956. Many people's priorities are wrong. And you only have to look around to see how many calories some people have obviously consumed! Part of the problem is laziness. However these days with two parents working and tired at the end of the day it must be so easy to reach for microwaveable convenience food whereas when I was growing up women didn't work so had time to cook a healthy meal.

There is a large retirement complex next to the local Waitrose , the residents do struggle round the store, one had a funny turn just yesterday.
Some elderly are painfully thin, they dont feed themselves properly, on the other hand they are very independent, most are not short of money, they just don’t like spending it, the saving for a rainy day mindset.

icanhandthemback

When my grandchildren received free school meals because of low income, my daughter wouldn't let her have them after the first month as they were not balanced or nutritious. Children were allowed to pick what they wanted and would go for things like Pizza or Sausage Roll but vegetables, such as they were (peas), would be left behind. After my DGD picked a plain jacket potato for 3 days in a row because she didn't like the spicy toppings, my daughter went to see her school but was told that there wasn't much they could do about it!
My Mum is in hospital now and we have to make sure she eats safely or at all. For the last week she has eaten sausages and mash followed by jelly, ice-cream and yogurt. Yesterday, for a change she had sausages and chips. She has no idea what she ordered for her meals or how often she has had the same thing so the caterers could ring the changes to see she had a more balanced diet but they appear more interested in clearing the trays as quickly as they can. Another 100 year old lady whose board says "soft food" only and can't feed herself, is often given more difficult food to eat. As she can't manage it, she doesn't eat it. She spends the rest of the time crying that she is hungry which the ward staff ignore (they are obviously bored with her) and another lady feeds her Jaffa cakes to keep her going.
It doesn't surprise me that there is an increase in malnutrition.

When my mother was in hospital she stopped eating and had the dietician visit her because she had lost so much weight. She was given a liquid food supplement which came in small plastic bottles. Because she was lactose intolerant she couldn't have the one usually given but had a special one. It was disgusting, even my mum who had a sweet tooth complained it was too sweet. So she wouldn't drink it. I believe there was some arrangement going on with the company manufacturing the stuff as they had a large advertising display in the hospital foyer. I think perhaps feeding the elderly is becoming big business.
We had to take in lunches for my mum because she wouldn't eat the hospital food.

When my grandchildren received free school meals because of low income, my daughter wouldn't let her have them after the first month as they were not balanced or nutritious. Children were allowed to pick what they wanted and would go for things like Pizza or Sausage Roll but vegetables, such as they were (peas), would be left behind. After my DGD picked a plain jacket potato for 3 days in a row because she didn't like the spicy toppings, my daughter went to see her school but was told that there wasn't much they could do about it!
My Mum is in hospital now and we have to make sure she eats safely or at all. For the last week she has eaten sausages and mash followed by jelly, ice-cream and yogurt. Yesterday, for a change she had sausages and chips. She has no idea what she ordered for her meals or how often she has had the same thing so the caterers could ring the changes to see she had a more balanced diet but they appear more interested in clearing the trays as quickly as they can. Another 100 year old lady whose board says "soft food" only and can't feed herself, is often given more difficult food to eat. As she can't manage it, she doesn't eat it. She spends the rest of the time crying that she is hungry which the ward staff ignore (they are obviously bored with her) and another lady feeds her Jaffa cakes to keep her going.
It doesn't surprise me that there is an increase in malnutrition.

too many mothers more concerned with nails and pink/blue hair. They buy ready mashed potatoes don't know how to buy fresh meat and veg. Don't know how to shop for reduced items. Too easy to order deliveroo et al

Interesting MerylStreep, about autism. Autistic children are not being offered access to children's mental health services from what I've read in the press, I imagine eating problems are not being helped.

I wonder if the pandemic is related in that people let their conditions get worse

There's no noticeable acceleration of the admissions rate post C19. The rise is steady over the whole 2008 to 2023 period.