Malnutrition in England

Calender girls memories of school dinners are exactly mine. However we only had school dinners when my mum got dinner vouchers. In the late 1960s when the factory where my dad worked was on strike rather a lot.
My children never wanted to stay to school dinners it was total junk food. I wouldn't give them myself everything was processed and deep fried. I did well balanced lunch boxes for them at school.
I have seen documentaries on TV about poverty it's struck me a lot of parents don't cook from scratch. The parents seem to rely on ready meals which can be expensive and lack nutrition.

nanna8

Malnutrition is estimated at between 10 and 30 % of the population in Australia which is very alarming. Food is now very expensive, particularly ‘good’ food as opposed to junk food which remains cheap and I am sure that is why people buy it- maccas is very cheap, for example. Even potatoes cost a fortune now.

Yet good food is being wasted, farmers have to dump it
because supermarkets say there is a glut or won't pay even the cost of production and getting it to market.

Whitewavemark2

Callistemon21

"School dinners" at senior school can consist of just half a baguette with some kind of filling.
A nutritious packed lunch with more variety can be made for half the price if the parents have the time and money.

If school dinners are to be provided (and I think they should) they should be nutritionally balanced and contain sufficient calories for the ages of the children.

It really has to start at nursery and certainly go through to senior school.

Our children are a precious resource for all our futures and good nutrition is a vital part of bringing healthy adults into the workplace.

Everything will benefit including the NHS.

Agreed 100% 👍

Malnutrition is bad whatever the cause and the government should get to grips with it though I doubt the Tories will bother. People are easily diverted into gossip about TV personalities, celebrities, BoJo's yet another baby, etc., rather than paying attention to real problems affecting large numbers of people.

Malnutrition is estimated at between 10 and 30 % of the population in Australia which is very alarming. Food is now very expensive, particularly ‘good’ food as opposed to junk food which remains cheap and I am sure that is why people buy it- maccas is very cheap, for example. Even potatoes cost a fortune now.

Callistemon21

"School dinners" at senior school can consist of just half a baguette with some kind of filling.
A nutritious packed lunch with more variety can be made for half the price if the parents have the time and money.

If school dinners are to be provided (and I think they should) they should be nutritionally balanced and contain sufficient calories for the ages of the children.

It really has to start at nursery and certainly go through to senior school.

Our children are a precious resource for all our futures and good nutrition is a vital part of bringing healthy adults into the workplace.

Everything will benefit including the NHS.

"School dinners" at senior school can consist of just half a baguette with some kind of filling.
A nutritious packed lunch with more variety can be made for half the price if the parents have the time and money.

If school dinners are to be provided (and I think they should) they should be nutritionally balanced and contain sufficient calories for the ages of the children.

DH lost 3 stone during an 8 week stay in hospital
The same thing happened with my MIL, she never really regained much weight, and DH lost 1.5 stones in hospital because he said the food was dreadful. He has regained most of it now.

Surely there must now be a case for free school meals and midday milk?

Yes!

Every child in the country gets free school meals up to the end of Year 2
Just in England, I think, maddyone.

People can have enough to eat but still be malnourished because the food is poor quality and doesn't contain enough nutrients for health and for children to grow and develop.

Rickets is caused by lack of vitamin D and calcium, both are needed for good bone development but there is such a fear of skin cancer now that children do not receive much Vitamin D from the sun and they do spend less time outdoors too GPs were advised to prescribe Vitamin D to children but this has rarely happened in fact.

Whoops. should have proof read and edited better.

The figure of 391 rising to 896 was for malnutrition alone, not rickets and scurvy.

OK. I've found the NHS England figures for admissions with rickets or scurvy. The series starts in 2007/8

In 2007/8 the total admissions for both diseases was 391. The number of admissions rises steadily over the next 14 years to 896 in 2021/22. The provisional figure for year 2022/23 is 800.

This data was issued 11th July 2023. I assume that this is where the OP's information has come from.

To me, this indicates a long term increase in malnutrition covering the period of tory austerity with cuts to public services and to welfare benefits.

The figures for scurvy and rickets fluctuate and don't seem to show any long term trend. Only malnutrition shows a clear cut long term trend.

There may also be demographic changes which affect the figures but there is no breakdown into demographic groups apart from by age.


digital.nhs.uk/supplementary-information/2023/admissions-for-scurvy-rickets-and-malnutrition

I think the malnutrition figures are deeply concerning.

Sorry I haven’t got back since early this morning only we’ve been walking and just returned with a tired dog.

Figures come from HoC library.

So stopping and thinking a bit, we already know that the average height of a U.K. child is lower than children on the continent, and this has been linked to poorer nutrition.

Malnutrition affects 1 in 20 people in the U.K. which is a similar rate to those affected by asthma. It increases to 1 in 10 of people over 65.

In 2020 there was a report published that showed that within the past 6 months malnutrition had doubled - I think it is almost certain that this is getting worse.

Those most at risk in the U.K. are the elderly and children under 5, and of this child wasting is the most deadly form.

I think there is no doubt that the crises in the cost of living is driving these malnutrition figures even higher.

Started school in 1957, left in 1969.

I remember the meals, in particular the ones at primary school.

For 5/- a week, one shilling a day, you got a nutritious, well balanced main course and pudding. Cooked mostly from scratch by the dinner ladies. I think they had to follow a government guideline re nutritional balance. Just water to drink at dinner time, remembering the stumpy glasses and rather dented metal jugs.

My DH, at a different school, was eligible for free school meals as he was from a large family. He would be one of those always-hungry little boys, who the dinner ladies made sure were first in line for seconds.

I think the price had gone up by the time I left school, but still good value.

Not everything has changed for the better.

maddyonegood point. I believe French children have school lunches provided which offer a balanced and varied diet,
Unfortunately this country has a poor history for healthy food.

maddyone

The OPs says the figures come from the NHS. Posters are not attempting in any way to discredit the figures, simply to explain them. It’s not as simple as attributing these figures to poverty. It’s highly likely that poverty is not the reason at all, because the reasons are far more complex. We should not take everything we read at face value.

I am not stupid, maddyone, I do know something about nutrition and groups likely to be subject to malnutrition.

My point was that, without knowing the significance of these figures one cannot make a judgement. If the incidence of admissions for diseases caused by malnutrition has increased significantly over the last year then there will be a cause which is additional to the usual ones which have been trotted out on here.

The rush to make out that these figures are normal, without context, looks like attempts to discredit the attribution to increased poverty.

My paternal grandma got scurvy when she was very old and had dementia. She lost the ability that she'd had all her life to feed herself healthily.

I think this is relatively common in very old people. Once it is detected and care put in place for them, they should recover from scurvy.

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised.
Until the Government start to tackle the hugely complex issue of Ultra Highly Processed foods which play a huge role in malnutrition, it matters little how much money is poured into the NHS and the population in general will become more and more unwell. Their starting point needs to be WHY is there so much ill health and to work from there.

Blondiescot

maddyone

The OPs says the figures come from the NHS. Posters are not attempting in any way to discredit the figures, simply to explain them. It’s not as simple as attributing these figures to poverty. It’s highly likely that poverty is not the reason at all, because the reasons are far more complex. We should not take everything we read at face value.

No-one is saying that it's simple - but there still should be a massive outcry about it in this day and age. Whether it's elderly people struggling to eat in hospital or children not getting a 'proper healthy diet', it's still outrageous that it should be happening in 2023. I understand that some cases can be complex, but we should be still be looking at the different causes and how to tackle them.

Agreed, which is why more detail is needed, the cause cannot be tackled unless it is known.

maddyone

The OPs says the figures come from the NHS. Posters are not attempting in any way to discredit the figures, simply to explain them. It’s not as simple as attributing these figures to poverty. It’s highly likely that poverty is not the reason at all, because the reasons are far more complex. We should not take everything we read at face value.

No-one is saying that it's simple - but there still should be a massive outcry about it in this day and age. Whether it's elderly people struggling to eat in hospital or children not getting a 'proper healthy diet', it's still outrageous that it should be happening in 2023. I understand that some cases can be complex, but we should be still be looking at the different causes and how to tackle them.

The OPs says the figures come from the NHS. Posters are not attempting in any way to discredit the figures, simply to explain them. It’s not as simple as attributing these figures to poverty. It’s highly likely that poverty is not the reason at all, because the reasons are far more complex. We should not take everything we read at face value.

As stated scurvy is caused by a lack of vitamin C. Vitamin C is found in fresh fruits and vegetables, primarily citrus fruits. Many people don’t eat enough fruit and vegetables and choose instead to eat fast food such as burgers or pizza.

I don't know the source of the OP's figures but if they are indicating a significant rise in the diseases of malnutrition I would ignore attempts to discredit them.

I echo what others have said in that elderly people will form a large part of the approximately 10,500 adults who are suffering from malnutrition. The elderly often stop wanting to eat and really feel it’s too much effort to cook healthy meals. My own mother was a case in question. She rarely ate very much of any nutritional value after dad died as it felt too much effort for her. She lived at home until she was 93, but luckily after dad died she moved to be near us where we could bring her round for a proper meal several times a week. I’m sure this helped to keep her in relatively good health until her last year, when a fall meant she needed to live in a care home. After this she lost almost total interest in food and just picked at bits and pieces despite the home offering lovely meals three times a day. She lost about three stones in her last couple of years, simply due to not eating enough proper food. Mum was not not poor. It’s just not as simple as saying poverty causes malnutrition.

Thank you Monica for saying what I was going to say about the definition of malnutrition and starvation which is only the start of the complexities surrounding food and diet. There does seem to be a fair amount of welfare intervention by the state and the charity sector re food but still we have children and adults who do not get enough of the right kind of food (or indeed too much of any kind of food) I cant see that changing despite so many campaigns.
Re Vit D deficiencies in some groups I think that is now well acknowledged and fewer children now present with rickets.
I don't have any answers and now do not work or volunteer in any sector. The only things I can do now is to keep donating to food banks I think.

Scurvy is vit C deficiency