6% pay increase for junior doctors to be paid out of existing funding! I don't think the Junior doctors will accept this so we will see further strikes and more doctors leaving the NHS. I think the consultants will also continue with their action and more will decide to work part time or retire early. I'm not sure where the RCN is but clearly many nurses are still unhappy with their pay. I think we are seeing a deliberate "run down" of the NHS in an attempt to make a partial privatisation of the NHS more acceptable to most of the population. Scotland negotiated a deal with their junior doctors, which I think will be accepted. The UK govt has not negotiated and I can't help thinking this was part of a plan to ensure that no deal was reached. I can't help but think we are seeing the beginning of the end of the NHS as we know it. Having seen how privatisation has gone with our water companies, energy, prisons, social care etc, this fills me with dread.
Not only the NHS but Tony Blair said on Sky News today that Labour are going to inherit an economy with literally no money. Far worse than the one Cameron lyingly eluded to.
We will certainly have to pay more in tax for our health service. I think we should all contribute to a Health tax. This would be similar to some European countries. A small charge could be made for a GP appointment which might deter time wasters. My daughter is a GP and says that frankly 60% of the patients she sees every day do not need to be there at all. Another contributor to Gransnet has also mentioned that we should also all take more responsibility for our own health. My son is a consultant surgeon and he has to operate on grossly overweight people - dangerous, risky and time consuming. He manages to save their lives. Also why shouldn’t we contribute to our food whilst in hospital? We would have to feed ourselves at home. There are now so many very expensive advances in medical help for us - and no government would be able to sustain affording all of this under present arrangements. We will have to pay more.
Its not just 6% - there is also a one off payment of well over £1000, as I understand it the pay rise equates to around 10% for the lowest paid junior doctors. Now, if anyone thinks this is unfair - you are not living in the real world. Hardly anyone in the private sector is getting pay rises in line with inflation - let alone the ludicrous demand for 35%! Even Labour could not afford to give in to that demand, I notice Starmer has been very quiet on the subject. The government accepted all the pay review bodies' recommendations in full - they could do nothing else after banging on about how they accepted the recommendations last year.
As for privatisation - its been around in the NHS for a long long time, the majority of GPs, pharmacists and dentists are private contractors. I really get tired of the hysteria about privatisation - if some services can be contracted out privately, at a reasonable price to the taxpayer, then why not?
MayBee70
Not only the NHS but Tony Blair said on Sky News today that Labour are going to inherit an economy with literally no money. Far worse than the one Cameron lyingly eluded to.
He wasn't lying - Cameron took office two years after the financial crash, there really was no money. I believe someone even left a note to that effect.
Baggs
Emilymaria
Foxie48 - creeping privatisation has been a sinister goal of the Tories forever.
This may be true but what do people have in mind when they worry about privatisation of the NHS?
Do they anticipate having to pay up front for every GP appointment and either having to use all their savings to pay for eseential treatment or do without essential treatment?
Or do they envisage some kind of health insurance tax/payments rather like National Insurance or whatever other European countries with successful and free at the point of treatment systems have?
The worry is that it will be put into the hands of private insurance companies and we’ll end up with a similar system to the USA, whereby the different types of Health Maintenance Organisations (HMOs) dictate what healthcare interventions people are able to access. For a large percentage of the poor, the sick and the elderly in the USA, healthcare cover is unaffordable and people end up having to sell their homes or go bankrupt if they become ill.
Saetana
MayBee70
Not only the NHS but Tony Blair said on Sky News today that Labour are going to inherit an economy with literally no money. Far worse than the one Cameron lyingly eluded to.
He wasn't lying - Cameron took office two years after the financial crash, there really was no money. I believe someone even left a note to that effect.
The note was a joke. It’s something people do. But Cameron waved it about and used it unscrupulously. And then walked out, leaving behind the Brexit mess that he’d created…
Totally agree.
If this was France they'd be rioting, speaking out and be heard, whereas we English do naff all and let it all happen no matter which party is in charge.
MayBee70
Saetana
MayBee70
Not only the NHS but Tony Blair said on Sky News today that Labour are going to inherit an economy with literally no money. Far worse than the one Cameron lyingly eluded to.
He wasn't lying - Cameron took office two years after the financial crash, there really was no money. I believe someone even left a note to that effect.
The note was a joke. It’s something people do. But Cameron waved it about and used it unscrupulously. And then walked out, leaving behind the Brexit mess that he’d created…
There isn't 'no money left', because that's not how the finances of a country which is able to issue its own currency (such as the UK) actually works. The country is not funded by taxation or any other sources of revenue. Taxation is just, among other things, retrieving the money that the government has issued into the economy to ensure that there isn't excess money circulating and causing inflation.
Politicians can lie about this all they like (and they certainly do) , but it doesn't make it true.
But you're no doubt sick of hearing me say this.
www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/quarterly-bulletin-2014-q1.pdf
See 'Money creation in the Modern Economy'
Also: www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/sites/bartlett_public_purpose/files/the_self-financing_state_an_institutional_analysis_of_government_expenditure_revenue_collection_and_debt_issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf
As for the joke note that Liam Byrne left, I'm sure that you've brought this up before, Saetana and it's been explained before, but don't let facts interfere with tory propaganda..
Amalegra
An excellent comment! The hysteria that we are encouraged to believe about ‘privatisation’ is to no one’s benefit. We do indeed need to look at other models of healthcare that are getting it right! I do not believe that the Labour Party is the answer to many of the country’s problems, let alone the NHS. Remember PFI? (Blair government). Often an expensive mess! A cross party, or even Royal, Commission should be established to examine this, preferably one that will not take a decade to do so! It would also be helpful if the nation as a whole could take better care of its health. So many severe illnesses which cost the health service so dear, are lifestyle induced. Whatever happens, change must come soon as we can’t keep being encouraged to worship at the shrine of an institution which is costing us so much yet failing us so badly.
And what do you call this Amalegra?
'Groundbreaking new dementia drugs are likely to be the preserve of the rich while NHS patients will be subject to a “massive postcode lottery” when they become available for the first time in the UK, according to the co-chair of the government’s national mission to tackle the condition.
Amid multiple scientific and pharmaceutical breakthroughs – the latest of which, donanemab, is to have its full clinical trial results published at a conference in the Netherlands on Monday – more research funding and the establishment of a dedicated government taskforce, it should be a promising time for tackling the disease that affects more than 850,000 people in Britain.
But Hilary Evans, who is also chief executive of Alzheimer’s Research UK, has warned that even though a licensed treatment could become available in as little as 12 to 18 months, it will be available only to “small pockets of the UK”. And for it to be widely available even in five to 10 years’ time, huge systemic changes are needed.'
If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?
Saetana
If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?
Do you not know that a jokey note is traditionally left by the outgoing treasury minister to the incoming minister?
Cameron knew it of course, but chose to use it to what he perceived as his advantage in order to supply “evidence” for his disastrous austerity programme but not a lot honour there is there?
Saetana
If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?
Are you referring to the financial crash of 2008?
If so I think I need to refresh your memory.
www.aei.org/articles/the-clinton-era-roots-of-the-financial-crisis/
MerylStreep
Saetana
If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?
Are you referring to the financial crash of 2008?
If so I think I need to refresh your memory.
www.aei.org/articles/the-clinton-era-roots-of-the-financial-crisis/
If it hadn't been for prompt action by Briwn and chancellor Darling many, many people in the UK would have found themselves with empty bank accounts and lost savings. Any economist will tell you that. They will also tell you that the UK economy was on the way to recovery before Cameron and Osboyrne got their hands on it...
MaizieD
I know, and every financial institution recognised it.
And, even now, Brown devotes a lot of his time to helping others. Such a decent man.
I’ve been expecting this since Covid ….this was their opportunity to start winding down the NHS….I personally haven’t been able to secure a doctors app face to face for 8 months! The dream is over! I’m surprised it’s lasted so long. I’ve told my kids to get good private health insurance …my savvy draughty has this …my son like me , cannot
afford it!
Not paying doctors properly will backfire. Junior doctors will choose to work part time and do locum shifts. Although this will extend their training time and the NHS is desperately short of consultants, it will a good option for lots of them. At least they get paid the market rate as a locum. However I am sure the government know that and don't care as it will be just more nails in the coffin.
That's a good point Vintagewhine, the reason we don't have enough NHS dentists is the amount they earn from NHS work doesn't cover their costs so they refuse to do NHS work and work privately instead. Junior doctors are the people who keep the hospitals running on a day to day basis, so if a hospital can't provide a safe service because it is short of staff, it has to pay a locum on locum rates or shut down that part of the service. Might be an operating theatre or two, might be ITU beds, it might mean they can't take any more patients on certain wards, it might mean cancelling clinics but basically even with basic cover it hits efficiency, costs the NHS more money and ensures waiting lists keep rising. I think this is part of their strategy.
I think we need cross party involvement to sort out the NHS instead of all the bickering and we also need to realise that the system is costly so we either pay a lot more in taxes or else we pay something at point of involvement.
I think it's almost useless to be funding extra places for training doctors unless we make their training dependant on them staying and working in the NHS for 5 yrs or so to pay the country back for our investment. What's the point of expensive training for people who once qualified go off to work in another country where conditions are better?
It weren’t they also working quite hard while they were qualifying?
MerylStreep
MaizieD
I know, and every financial institution recognised it.
Sorry, I quoted the wrong posts, really....
we also need to realise that the system is costly so we either pay a lot more in taxes or else we pay something at point of involvement.
No we don't. See my post at 16.22.
While people are addicted to the mistaken belief that taxes pay for public services we will never get any sensible change to national policy because the minute a politician says that they would invest money in the NHS they're stymied by attacks from the media and politicians who oppose them.
MayBee70
Not only the NHS but Tony Blair said on Sky News today that Labour are going to inherit an economy with literally no money. Far worse than the one Cameron lyingly eluded to.
So who wrote the note then.
Actually really don't care. Because I strongly believe Starmer will do more damage to this country than the worst Cons Gov, which is what we have now. He flip flops, over his policies, you've only to see his varied interviews on you tube, he can't make his mind up, wants to please everyone, but helps no one. In league with eco terrorists, and can't even answer questions on Socialism. He'll be a disaster.
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