Running down the NHS so it has to be privatised?

M0nica

One of the many reasons I have never voted Labour in the past is because of its economic incompetence. Even Gordon Brown tipped into incompetence once he was PM

I still do not have no confidence in the party's economic competence. What has changed, however, is the Conservatives. They have in the past, generally been more economically competent than Labour, not that I could ever bring myself to vote for them for many other reasons.

What has changed, is that now, the balance has tipped and now, Labour is economicaly, slightly less incompetent than the Coservatives. - but, no, I still have no intention of voting for them.

Nor me Monica. I’ve voted Labour, Conservative, and Liberal Democrat in the last, so I suppose I am a voting voter, but I have no idea who I will vote for in the next election. I might not vote at all, which of will make me feel guilty as women fought for me to vote.
I have no confidence that Labour will do anything for me and my family, but equally I have no confidence that Conservatives will either. We are middle of the road people, not rich, not poor. Both parties will enact policies I disagree with. I have no confidence that Labour, who will probably get in at the next election, will manage the economy properly, but at present the Conservatives don’t appear to be managing the economy well either.

We obviously have a few posters on GN who understands economics.
What is your opinion of Rachel Reeves? We were talking to a friend who works in Canary Wharf ( voted conservative all his life) and his ( and others) in financial circles claim she passes the sniff/smell test

I can't see that any of the political parties display any signs of potential economic competence, MOnica, so I'm really curious to know which you would vote for

M0nica

One of the many reasons I have never voted Labour in the past is because of its economic incompetence. Even Gordon Brown tipped into incompetence once he was PM

I still do not have no confidence in the party's economic competence. What has changed, however, is the Conservatives. They have in the past, generally been more economically competent than Labour, not that I could ever bring myself to vote for them for many other reasons.

What has changed, is that now, the balance has tipped and now, Labour is economicaly, slightly less incompetent than the Coservatives. - but, no, I still have no intention of voting for them.

There’s evidence that Labour haven’t been economically incompetent compared with the Tories over the years Monica, studies have proved that. But of course their policies may have been ones you didn’t agree with, which is a different issue.

One of the many reasons I have never voted Labour in the past is because of its economic incompetence. Even Gordon Brown tipped into incompetence once he was PM

I still do not have no confidence in the party's economic competence. What has changed, however, is the Conservatives. They have in the past, generally been more economically competent than Labour, not that I could ever bring myself to vote for them for many other reasons.

What has changed, is that now, the balance has tipped and now, Labour is economicaly, slightly less incompetent than the Coservatives. - but, no, I still have no intention of voting for them.

Freya5 if you are really well off, keep voting Conservative because they will always run the economy to benefit the rich and if you have no conscience about the effect it has on poorer and more vulnerable people in our society then you will be happy. Take the recent change in pension contributions, the PM said he'd listened to the hospital consultants and changed the rules to accommodate them, but he didn't change them just for consultants, it actually is a massive perk for everyone on high salaries and hospital consultants make up a very small percentage of those who will benefit. So the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. There's talk of reducing inheritance tax or even scrapping it, who will benefit? The richest people in our society yet again. There doesn't seem to be a problem in giving money to the already wealthy, that doesn't seem to create inflation!

Casdon

Freya5

Actually really don't care. Because I strongly believe Starmer will do more damage to this country than the worst Cons Gov, which is what we have now. He flip flops, over his policies, you've only to see his varied interviews on you tube, he can't make his mind up, wants to please everyone, but helps no one. In league with eco terrorists, and can't even answer questions on Socialism. He'll be a disaster.

There’s no evidence that Labour run the country’s economy worse than the Tories Freya5, in fact the opposite is true.
www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/new-research-reveals-labour-is-better-at-handling-the-economy-than-the-conservatives-295748/
However, whatever evidence is provided which contradicts your strong belief isn’t going to be listened to by the tone of your post.

You're right there.

Freya5

Actually really don't care. Because I strongly believe Starmer will do more damage to this country than the worst Cons Gov, which is what we have now. He flip flops, over his policies, you've only to see his varied interviews on you tube, he can't make his mind up, wants to please everyone, but helps no one. In league with eco terrorists, and can't even answer questions on Socialism. He'll be a disaster.

There’s no evidence that Labour run the country’s economy worse than the Tories Freya5, in fact the opposite is true.
www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/new-research-reveals-labour-is-better-at-handling-the-economy-than-the-conservatives-295748/
However, whatever evidence is provided which contradicts your strong belief isn’t going to be listened to by the tone of your post.

I heard it or saw it a suggestion that ALL CITIZENS regardless of age should continue to pay NI based on level of income. Obviously some old people could not afford to pay so it would be means tested. That might swallow up too mych money in admin. However, something must be done. Charge for doctors appts? Pay a sum for your food in hospital? Increase NI charge? Where are the solutions for the NHS?

Actually really don't care. Because I strongly believe Starmer will do more damage to this country than the worst Cons Gov, which is what we have now. He flip flops, over his policies, you've only to see his varied interviews on you tube, he can't make his mind up, wants to please everyone, but helps no one. In league with eco terrorists, and can't even answer questions on Socialism. He'll be a disaster.

MayBee70

Not only the NHS but Tony Blair said on Sky News today that Labour are going to inherit an economy with literally no money. Far worse than the one Cameron lyingly eluded to.

So who wrote the note then.

we also need to realise that the system is costly so we either pay a lot more in taxes or else we pay something at point of involvement.

No we don't. See my post at 16.22.

While people are addicted to the mistaken belief that taxes pay for public services we will never get any sensible change to national policy because the minute a politician says that they would invest money in the NHS they're stymied by attacks from the media and politicians who oppose them.

MerylStreep

MaizieD
I know, and every financial institution recognised it.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong posts, really....

It weren’t they also working quite hard while they were qualifying?

I think we need cross party involvement to sort out the NHS instead of all the bickering and we also need to realise that the system is costly so we either pay a lot more in taxes or else we pay something at point of involvement.
I think it's almost useless to be funding extra places for training doctors unless we make their training dependant on them staying and working in the NHS for 5 yrs or so to pay the country back for our investment. What's the point of expensive training for people who once qualified go off to work in another country where conditions are better?

That's a good point Vintagewhine, the reason we don't have enough NHS dentists is the amount they earn from NHS work doesn't cover their costs so they refuse to do NHS work and work privately instead. Junior doctors are the people who keep the hospitals running on a day to day basis, so if a hospital can't provide a safe service because it is short of staff, it has to pay a locum on locum rates or shut down that part of the service. Might be an operating theatre or two, might be ITU beds, it might mean they can't take any more patients on certain wards, it might mean cancelling clinics but basically even with basic cover it hits efficiency, costs the NHS more money and ensures waiting lists keep rising. I think this is part of their strategy.

Not paying doctors properly will backfire. Junior doctors will choose to work part time and do locum shifts. Although this will extend their training time and the NHS is desperately short of consultants, it will a good option for lots of them. At least they get paid the market rate as a locum. However I am sure the government know that and don't care as it will be just more nails in the coffin.

I’ve been expecting this since Covid ….this was their opportunity to start winding down the NHS….I personally haven’t been able to secure a doctors app face to face for 8 months! The dream is over! I’m surprised it’s lasted so long. I’ve told my kids to get good private health insurance …my savvy draughty has this …my son like me , cannot
afford it!

And, even now, Brown devotes a lot of his time to helping others. Such a decent man.

MaizieD
I know, and every financial institution recognised it.

MerylStreep

Saetana

If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?

Are you referring to the financial crash of 2008?
If so I think I need to refresh your memory.

www.aei.org/articles/the-clinton-era-roots-of-the-financial-crisis/

If it hadn't been for prompt action by Briwn and chancellor Darling many, many people in the UK would have found themselves with empty bank accounts and lost savings. Any economist will tell you that. They will also tell you that the UK economy was on the way to recovery before Cameron and Osboyrne got their hands on it...

Saetana

If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?

Are you referring to the financial crash of 2008?
If so I think I need to refresh your memory.

www.aei.org/articles/the-clinton-era-roots-of-the-financial-crisis/

Saetana

If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?

Do you not know that a jokey note is traditionally left by the outgoing treasury minister to the incoming minister?

Cameron knew it of course, but chose to use it to what he perceived as his advantage in order to supply “evidence” for his disastrous austerity programme but not a lot honour there is there?

If it was a joke then it wasn't very funny - Blair and Brown presided over the financial crash, and handled it miserably. Cameron, much as I dislike him, was handed a dog's dinner. Unlike Labour who inherited a healthy economy in 1997. Now, the highly likely next Labour government will also be handed a dog's dinner - I wonder how they will cope?

Full article here

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/16/new-dementia-drugs-patients-to-pay-privately-or-face-nhs-postcode-lottery?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5