The two child limit for benefits

How has he flip-flopped? This is not his policy .

I wouldn’t call them pie-in-the-sky policies, but I expect KS will do what new PMs always do and blame the previous government for being unable to fulfil manifesto promises.

jane1956

he flip flop all the time captain hindsight sir kneeler what would you expect?

A coherent critique of his pros and cons perhaps?

I expect so too, as that will be what happens if he is pressed into making promises at this stage - the economy is in a mess.

I don't blame him for saying as little as possible, as anything he does say will be used as an accusation if he is unable to make it work because of lack of funds.

In theory limitless child benefit is the right thing to do. But what about the very many people who are not working and continue to have large families? They obviously do not intend to ‘cut to their cloth’! Contraception is free today after all! I know very many families who have continued to have children when unemployed and fully able to work. Some are single parents and there are multiple fathers. One had seven children several of which have ended up in care as the fathers were not interested. Another had a fifth child to get a bigger (council) house which they did…eventually. I know these are extreme examples and that it is not the child’s fault. But for how long is society going to carry the responsibility for other peoples poor decisions which often cause misery and poverty to their undeserving children?! I think it is high time that we talked a lot more about PERSONAL responsibility underpinned by a state that steps in to educate and support as necessary. I personally would have loved to have a fourth child but knew that we could not afford one.

GrannyGravy13

Not all families with two children get Family Allowance there is also an upper earnings cap.

I’m out of touch with the present arrangements but when my eldest was born I got nothing for her but did get it for the second and third. I seem to remember it didn’t depend on income either and even the Queen was entitled to claim!

People forget that child benefit was brought in to replace child tax credit. It was also designed to put cash in the hands of the mother as, at the time, it was normal for women to stay at home with no direct access to the family income.

I don't want to generalise, but wonder if the people described on here (the single mums with multiple children by different partners and no jobs) are likely to spend CB on the children anyway?

I would like to see all children get a balanced breakfast and lunch every day at school, a guarantee of access to broadband for homework, and similar ways found to ensure that they have a chance of an education and a healthy start in life. NHS dentistry and medical checks at school would be useful too, as would proper provision for things like Dyslexia and ADD that can impair progress.

I would like to see talents in areas such as music and drama nourished instead of cutting provision for them in state schools. If more could be provided 'in kind' it would ensure that it got to the children (however many are in the family) and there would be no perceived incentive for people to have more children to get the £15 a week each or whatever it is for those born after the first one.

Yes ohnoyoudont I was a single parent with four children ( with my husband who ambled off with another woman and left full time work). I worked full time and kept them on my salary with a little help from ex husband. No benefits were involved except..
child benefit....(!) I returned to the classroom when my last child was six weeks old and did not leave until my retirement.
All data should be subject to informed and robust analysis before any conclusions are reached

jane1956

he flip flop all the time captain hindsight sir kneeler what would you expect?

childish comments. I hope you give more consideration to how you vote than you do to 'witty' commentary. But I doubt it

Starmer is trying to appeal too much to conservative voters and is becoming too right wing. I want a left wing Labour Party with an ideology to make life better for all. This is another aspiration he has already dropped before an election is even announced. Ver, very sad

There doesn’t seem to be much clear blue water between Labour and Conservative these days. When Labour win the next GE I doubt I shall notice much difference really.

Casdon,

Re LSE article here is the link for anyone who would like to read it
blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/two-child-limit/

Urmstongran

There doesn’t seem to be much clear blue water between Labour and Conservative these days. When Labour win the next GE I doubt I shall notice much difference really.

That’s exactly how I feel, whoever is in power nothing will change for the majority of the population.

Well, yes, maybe all adults who can work should do so but children can't work and it is they who are suffering.

I wanted 3 children but we decided on just 2 due to costs. However my sister in law has 4 children and got by just on benefits and relying on family who basically sacrificed their own retirement to pay for her 4 children! So they were broke. [. She was a single mother and 3 different fathers. Basically i do agree you shouldn’t have more than you can easily support but I also understand about personal choice. Therefore I think benefits after 3 children is more fair to all and to the tax payers who do not have kids and support others.

Sorry that should read benefits upto 3 children is fine.

My sister had four kids and only got allowance got three …it never used to be paid for first child. If you can’t afford the kids …don’t have them . I waited five years to start my family because I wanted a home of our own before bringing them into the world. Not difficult these days to stop kids from being conceived is it!? More difficult in my young days ..,.had to use the word “no “ a lot more!

rugbymumcumbria

Starmer is trying to appeal too much to conservative voters and is becoming too right wing. I want a left wing Labour Party with an ideology to make life better for all. This is another aspiration he has already dropped before an election is even announced. Ver, very sad

I'm not sure just how far to the left you want to go but this was Labour Party policy under Corbyn too.

As a none Party member or supporter I do feel more will be done for the disenfranchised by a Starmer led Labour Party than the current Tory Party. Those are our choices.

GrannyGravy13

Dinahmo

Norah

GrannyGravy13

Not all families with two children get Family Allowance there is also an upper earnings cap.

As there should be, in my opinion.

We chose to have 4 children. What we didn't do was choose for taxpayers to support our children. I've always been sahm - I didn't expect taxpayers to support me in staying home, we did for ourselves. I consider my "pay" to be not paying childcare and doing husband's business books myself (not for pay).

Your husband may have put a "notional" salary through his books for you. Perfectly allowable to pay one's spouse.

We own our SME, definitely no notional salary I earn every penny of my salary.

Dinahmo No, I do his business books, ready for his Accountant - obviously I know amounts he pays and to whom.

Grantanow

In times past there was no Family allowance for the first child, I believe.

You're absolutely right. I'm an only child and my mum couldn't claim Child Benefit for me until 1977, when I was 14 as it wasn't given to the first born until then. My parents only had me as they couldn't afford any more children.

I can agree with your sentiments more, Doodledog.
In common with several people here, l who have loved another child but we couldn't afford it so had three children rather than four.

Dinahmo

Before moving to France I was a volunteer for Save the Children. When people complained about some of the projects the answer was that it's not the children's fault that they are in a particular situation. The charity existed to help those children.

By restricting the child benefit to 2 children Starmer is continuing the harm already done. There are some feckless people out there who will no doubt produce more than two children. But it's not the child's fault, if it happens to be number 3, or number 4, or maybe number 9. the child should not be made to suffer.

“Feckless”!!! I had a friend who had one child with her first husband (working) later had 2 with second husband (also working) husband then contracted a serious illness and died so she had 3 children and then was suddenly a single parent! When my own 3 were small we had them in a stable income what if one if us had died should we or our children be penalised for that!

I meant l COULDN'T agree with you more, Doodledog. Autocorrect...

One of the proper functions of any State in any society is the maintenance of whatever number of children citizens produce; what does anyone think the purpose of a State is? Not the maintenance of happy lifestyles or to bring luxurious commodities to an adult population - adults who have to work every moment of their pitiful lives to pay taxes to maintain these lifestyles.