Free Speech What Do Grans Think?

He knew exactly what he was saying, was just trying to be smart. He could just as easily preached against the sin of sloth; as far as I am aware, there is no political or interest group called Sloth. To be honest, I am uncomfortable with the crossing over of religion (any religion) and politics. The previous LibDem leader Tim Farron was unable to reconcile his religious beliefs and political career when it came to single sex marriage, so he made his decision and without offending anyone.

I totally agree with Skydancer.
That being said,if i have something to say,i say it,obviously if i know i am 100% correct.

Jess20

Karl Popper said “in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.”

Karl Popper was a wise man. It's not possible to "police" people's thoughts but it is possible to "police" what people say, especially when they are representative of an organisation and the values of that organisation.

Spot on Doodledog

Free speech is important - but what he did was putting his own values across by twisting the words in the bible.
To me, that is not right.
If you want to voice your opinion then do so in your own words. Don't quote a book where the meaning of the paragraph has nothing to do with whatever you are speaking about.
The Bible quote was referencing "pride" as someone being overly proud of themselves and what they do.
This may apply to some people of all sexuality so single out the events is not right. Yes, maybe he is annoyed that they have chosen the word "Pride" for the events but that is not how it comes over.

I’m going to leave this thread now without posting anything - whew! - and go to the next GN topic about decaying fruit.

Ailidh

*Doodledog * I used to know chapter and verse (literally). Now I'm going to have to go and hunt out my 39 year old essay, lovingly preserved. Somewhere.....

Please - don't go to any trouble . It is interesting to know that there was such a thing as a preferred view of mildew, but I'll manage with knowing that I'd rather avoid it as far as possible without knowing chapter and verse. I assume that the Bible is generally against it?

Thank you Siope.

He should be allowed to say and think what he likes. But he should not be allowed anywhere near this country’s political forum. What he said was nothing to do with politics and everything to do with him wanting to force his ghastly and erroneous opinions on others!

Doodledog I used to know chapter and verse (literally). Now I'm going to have to go and hunt out my 39 year old essay, lovingly preserved. Somewhere.....

Karl Popper said “in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.”

What are the criteria for earning respect?

Take notice of the good people who don't respect you to find out

If King Lawal says what he has been saying it is unsurprising that people want to distance themselves from him.
This will be true of the Tory party and others who he hasbeen affiliated with. Most won't want to imply agreement.

He is welcome to say things within the law but as someone said earlier- there may be consequences!

Probably lots of us would be surprised to hear people in our own lives speak as he seems to have done and yes, it would definitely affect how I felt about them if I needed help. .

Interested, I was shocked to see you using the N word. That’s not acceptable. I have reported your post for that reason.

Galaxy

That doesnt answer the question though. Elon musk is currently putting controls on what is said on Twitter, with enormous reach, is that ok.

Of course you don't have to use Twitter.
It's optional.

We all have our opinions, thoughts and beliefs, but keep them out of the workplace. That is not the place to air them.

I worked in public services for many years - I was there to serve all of the the public, not spout off about religion or anything else.

Or to allow it to affect my job.

I think this councillor is mixing up his interpretation of the word gay anyway.

Years ago, the word "gay" in books etc., meant to be jolly and happy.🙄

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I wonder if there would have been a similar backlash if someone gay or trans had said similar?

I am a pagan, and I have no time for Christian dogma, but I support this man's right to quote the tenets of his own holy book.

As for having learned to give resect where it is 'earned', VioletSky, I would ask what are the criteria for 'earning' respect? And I would say all too many people respect very little, including themselves.

Something is very sour and very off in the way we are going. No of course we do not want to return to times when homosexuals feared for their lives. But is the only alternative this complete circus we now have?

I have to keep my mouth shut about a lot of my beliefs these days. I do not know what the answer is, apart from all trying to be more tolerant, more loving and just not to shout so much.

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes we have Skydancer. A time when we as heterosexual people born and bred here were in the majority, a time when we didn’t have to kowtow to those who were not, and to people whose sexual preferences are in the minority.

This seems overstated!

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It’s a toughie ! Let’s leave politics completely out of this as I feel it’s irrelevant in this context.

So, my own opinion is “freedom of thought” is completely different to publicly expressing what effectively could be construed as “hate speech” when you’re a public figure.

Hate speech, whether we agree or not is a crime now.

In your own home you’re completely free to express yourself and free to speak about any topic and hold strong opinions.

To do this publicly is dangerous.

I think many strong views are held in the name of Christianity.

Pride isn’t just a celebration of how far we’ve come, but also a protest of far much further we need to go.

With two gays daughters in their 20’s I’m horrified to discover they still experience discrimination both personally and in the workplace.

Freedom of Screech is one thing, and I hope we never lose this, freedom to express your views negatively against specific groups of people us entirely another.

This gentleman may believe pride is a sin, many of us don’t and we are “proud” of many things.

Any self respecting Christian would preach acceptance not the opposite

It appears to be a homophobic comment and as a lesbian I find his remarks offensive and inciting prejudice

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes we have Skydancer. A time when we as heterosexual people born and bred here were in the majority, a time when we didn’t have to kowtow to those who were not, and to people whose sexual preferences are in the minority.

What the.....? Did you really just post this? I have no words.... 🤦‍♂️

I felt slightly sick (really) when I saw the DT headline today. I hope plenty of Coutts customers cancel their accounts.
"Sir, I disagree with what you say, but I will.defend to the death you right to say it" (Don't know who)
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. W. Churchill.

Pride (with a small 'p') is, indeed, a sin, if you believe in sin.

Pride (capital 'p') is a festival to celebrate gay liberation from prejudice. This man is deliberately conflating the two to say that being gay is a sin. He may believe that to be the case, but it is also a protected characteristic, so as a councillor he has no choice but to accept it, on the surface as least. He can pray how he likes, but he can't tweet things like that in the role of Conservative councillor. He could go independent and do it, and see how many votes he gets, but he can't drag an established political party through the mud.

Siope

As one of those ‘minorities’ who has been directly affected by bigots and bigotry, up to and including violence, I learned early that freedom of expression was often a useful cover for those who hated me for what I am.

I am proud to have not been cowed or intimidated into stopping campaigning and lobbying for changes of hearts, minds and laws. I’m not daft enough to think that there will never be bigots, but I am delighted when they say that society has changed so much that they don’t feel comfortable openly expressing their racism, homophobia or other prejudices.

Of course, freedom of expression is important - vital even - but nobody ever said freedom of expression = freedom from consequences. Feel free to speak your truth, feel free to express your views, feel free to stand up for what you believe, provided that you are happy to accept, as I have done for so long, that there will be consequences.

Which is, of course, exactly what has happened in the case in the OP. Nobody has stopped Mr Lawal expressing his opinion, one organisation has merely said there are consequences.

Exactly that.