Free Speech What Do Grans Think?

We are not free to express our opinions any more unless they are what is believed to be politically correct. We all have to be careful these days. If I expressed some of my views on this site I would be banned that's for sure.

Just read what he allegedly said, my interpretation of it is that this has been taken as being homophobic.

Responding to images of Pride parades organised by LGBT groups at the end of last month, he wrote: “When did pride become a thing to celebrate? Because of pride, Satan fell as an archangel. Pride is not a virtue but a sin. Those who have pride should repent of their sins and return to Jesus Christ. He can save you. #PrideMonth #Pride23 #PrideParade.”

He's equating gay people with sin - which is not a very kind thing to do.

He's free to say it, and various organisations are free to say they don't want to be associated with him and his thoughts.

He is not commenting on sinful pride, but on what he refers to as 'sexual ethics'. As the comment was related to Pride, (as opposed to pride) then yes, the comment comes across as homophobic, particularly as he refers to Pride as something that 'God calls 'sin''. He must have known what he was saying, and that it would contradict the values of the party he represents. I don't vote Conservative, but if I did I wouldn't want to be represented by a councillor who felt like that (or, alternatively, who was too obtuse to understand that his comments would be offensive to many).

I don't think this contradicts a right to free speech, just the right to say hurtful things and remain a councillor affiliated to the party which brought in the right to gay marriage. He can think what he likes, and express those thoughts privately, but there is a time to speak your mind, and a time to mind your speech. Tweeting homophobic comments falls into the latter part of that truism.

Skydancer

We are not free to express our opinions any more unless they are what is believed to be politically correct. We all have to be careful these days. If I expressed some of my views on this site I would be banned that's for sure.

Absolutely!

I guess there are a lot of people who get irritated by the amount of news generated by Pride. I am old enough to recall how many Gays were scared to come out, so I think that once being gay was fine with the majority that it is a relief to many people and so they are entitled to celebrate. However, I think this man could have been warned that his remarks were not acceptable and to stop worthwith. I think his treatment was very harsh. I am also a a member of the Church of England and think that we cannot deny we can find many references to homosexuality in the bible. He obviously takes the holy book literally forgetting that social mores change. I think that Christians in many countries were converted hundreds of years ago when homosexuality was taboo. I know this from living in such countries because gay life is not well tolerated. I think I am just uncomfortable about the way people think they cannot speak what they really believe in case they get reported and punished.

Doodledog puts it very well. There are limits to free speech in public when what is said is contrary to law and is hurtful.

I vote Conservative (but am not a party member) and am a member of the Church of England. So there’s a slight conflict for me between the law and the Bible. However I think that in this predominantly secular society a clear message had to be sent - and it was. A councillor is supposed to represent everyone in their ward regardless of faith, ethnicity or sexual persuasion.

It depends on the context.

Pride (as in vanity) is one of the deadly sins referred to in the Bible

Pride, sometimes called vanity or hubris, is considered the fundamental sin and the mother of all vices. The first sin ever committed was an act of pride when Satan refused to recognize God as his Lord

It was Pride that changed angels into devils; it is humility that makes men as angels. - St. Augustine

So he is correct in a Biblical context.

Pride is being proud of who you are. It's about not worrying what others will think of you or being discriminated against based on your race, nationality, religion, or sexual orientation. Pride means acceptance and authenticity of self.

Pride has been chosen as the name for people who should feel no shame for who they are.
We can feel pride in our achievements.

Neither is sinful.

He could argue he meant the former but in fact, in the context reported, he meant the latter.

His freedom of speech and religion have not been violated. The Conservative Party supports gay marriage. He can hold his homophobic views but can’t express them and expect to represent the Conservative Party. Councillors and MP’s have to represent their constituents without fear or favour. I don’t expect he’d offer a positive service to gay men

I was brought up in the Church of England and I’m an occasional churchgoer. His views would not be welcome in our local churches.

I agree with Germanshepherdsmum on this. In any society free speech has constraints of law and custom and may have consequences. Those in public office need to be aware of the responsibilities that go with it.

I think GSD has put it succinctly and I totally agree with what she has written.

There are lots of ways this can impact individuals

We have the equality act which protects people with certain characteristics

We have laws around hate speech

Companies may have policies that cover those who work for them or use their services

Any individual liberty we have does not come before anyone else's...

Therefore there are repercussions in many areas for expressing certain views. No one has to listen to anyone's views.

I've literally had "Freedom of speech" shouted at me in the past even though technically, we do not have it. I don't have to stand and listen to anyone

Skydancer

We are not free to express our opinions any more unless they are what is believed to be politically correct. We all have to be careful these days. If I expressed some of my views on this site I would be banned that's for sure.

Have we ever really had freedom of speech in the sense of been totally free to express our opinions without repercussions?

For example, my elderly BIL regularly trots this phrase out, but I know for a fact that back when he was a business owner/employer, he wouldn't have thought twice about firing employees for speaking their mind if he didn't like what they said.

I agree with you Skydancer. Many of us have to keep our real feelings to ourselves, even among family and friends - almost without exception to protect the sensitivities of minority groups.

Feelings or opinions?

I think feelings are only appropriate if a minority group is causing direct harm to an individual

Which seems unlikely

Sago

Skydancer

We are not free to express our opinions any more unless they are what is believed to be politically correct. We all have to be careful these days. If I expressed some of my views on this site I would be banned that's for sure.

Absolutely!

I so agree.

That makes such a terrible personal advertisment

Would not buy

I think most of us have known a better time. A time when there were fewer people, when there was more respect, when people had better manners .... things have gone downhill in recent years in almost every aspect of life.

I think people have just learned to give respect where it is earned, not demanded

Skydancer

I think most of us have known a better time. A time when there were fewer people, when there was more respect, when people had better manners .... things have gone downhill in recent years in almost every aspect of life.

A better time when people "knew their place"?. When men were blackmailed/outed/beaten up for being "queers"?.. You stay in your fantasy of the good old days, I prefer where I am now, thank you.

Yes we have Skydancer. A time when we as heterosexual people born and bred here were in the majority, a time when we didn’t have to kowtow to those who were not, and to people whose sexual preferences are in the minority.

Blimey GSM

VioletSky

I think people have just learned to give respect where it is earned, not demanded

I think people absolutely have a right to demand respect, if 'respect' is the opposite of 'disrespectful behaviour'. The idea that someone has any right to denigrate someone else's sexuality is unacceptable to me.

Pride as a carnival is not everyone's cup of tea, and it has, arguably, been hijacked by vested interests so is no longer a joyful camp celebration of being gay. I'm not sure that it will carry on for much longer, as it is already fragmenting.

But what it used to symbolise - the right of gay people to be treated the same as straight ones, not to be accused of being 'sinful', and to be able to congregate without let or hindrance is a big step forward and should not be allowed to be diminished by people in positions of influence.

There are 2 types of respect

1. Basic respect and treating others with good manners and decency

2. Respect for someone as a leader, a person in authority or a role model

Anyone who demands both but won't give you 1 until you give them 2... Deserves neither