Trump called to account for Capitol Riot?

freya it is about far more than Trumps speech on the day - although I watched it on the day (CNN) , and distinctly remember thinking that he was riling up the crowd. However it is more than that, it is about his actions before, during and after the insurrection.

I have been trying to work out all the cases to be tried.

So far
There is the case to be tried in New York over the falsification of business records - I think this was in order to obtain loans to which he wasn’t entitled and maybe the IR are involved?

Then there is the concealment and taking highly classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.

Then Fulton County Georgia, where he tried to over turn the election result by asking the governor to “find” votes.

Then he was lost a defamation case against a woman on sexual assault.

Then the latest - which must be the most serious of the entire lot.

If he had succeeded the USA would have almost certainly descended into civil war, and Trump would have ridden a coach and horses through the constitution.

As I've been called Trumpian on here, by a certain individual, I've just listened, well actually read, the transcript of his speech before the Capital riot. No I do not endorse this man, after all I'm not an American, although I have family members living there, who also do not. I have heard of selective hearing, usually from my dear SIL, re my brother but honestly, the selective hearing on the left is amazing

"Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."
Taken from his speech, but you can all listen, its on you tube, transcript also.

Let's have a fair hearing, everyone is entitled to such, no matter what all think on here. Bye.

LovesBach

I recall Trump encouraging people to 'go and get back what is ours' or words very close to that which resulted in the Capitol riots. An assistant of his is reported in The Times today as saying he stood beside Trump at the time, and he heard Trump appeal for a peaceful demonstration. Does anyone else recall watching that particular news item, as I am keen to know who has re written history - Trump's associate, or me?

It’s a bit like Johnson lying to parliament. I heard it myself. It was obvious he was encouraging the protesters. He refused to acknowledge Biden’s win.

Apparently Trumps lawyer wants the trial moved to the Southern states - not convinced it should be as the crime took place in Washington DC and imo the trial should be heard there.

I wonder why the co-conspirators haven’t been indicted yet? Assuming they will be.

In reading today's NYTimes I found:

Aug. 2, 2023, 8:42 a.m.
19 minutes ago
Alan Feuer and Maggie Haberman

The special counsel accused Trump of taking part in three conspiracies.

In sweeping terms, the indictment described how former President Donald J. Trump and six co-conspirators employed a variety of means to reverse his defeat in the election almost from the moment that voting ended.Credit...Maddie McGarvey for The New York Times

Former President Donald J. Trump was indicted on Tuesday in connection with his widespread efforts to overturn the 2020 election following a sprawling federal investigation into his attempts to cling to power after losing the presidency.

The indictment, filed by the special counsel Jack Smith in Federal District Court in Washington, accuses Mr. Trump of three conspiracies: one to defraud the United States; a second to obstruct an official government proceeding, the certification of the Electoral College vote; and a third to deprive people of a civil right, the right to have their votes counted. Mr. Trump was also charged with a fourth count of obstructing or attempting to obstruct an official proceeding.

Whitewavemark2

DAR

The term populism has a particular meaning in political science. It does not mean popular.

Did I make it sound as if it did Whitewave? Sorry if it read like that. I did try to give a comprehensive and clear reply. It doesn't always work for everyone.

I recall Trump encouraging people to 'go and get back what is ours' or words very close to that which resulted in the Capitol riots. An assistant of his is reported in The Times today as saying he stood beside Trump at the time, and he heard Trump appeal for a peaceful demonstration. Does anyone else recall watching that particular news item, as I am keen to know who has re written history - Trump's associate, or me?

Urmstongran

No I don’t.

If Trump is found guilty he won’t run. In my opinion.
Time will tell.

Oh that is interesting.

I think it is going to be incredibly interesting - but them I’m a bit odd😄😄😄

No I don’t.

If Trump is found guilty he won’t run. In my opinion.
Time will tell.

Urmstongran

For balance let’s be aware the noose is tightening around the Bidens. Hunter’s laptop/Russian involvement is gaining traction.

Hence why Trump & Biden are neck and neck in polls over there for the White House occupancy next year ...

There’s a way to go yet folks.

So if Trump gets found guilty over any of the indictments, do you think it is desirable that he pardons himself if he wins the election?

Did I liken him to Hitler ? I don’t think so. I just said he was a populist Do not read things that are not there please.

For balance let’s be aware the noose is tightening around the Bidens. Hunter’s laptop/Russian involvement is gaining traction.

Hence why Trump & Biden are neck and neck in polls over there for the White House occupancy next year ...

There’s a way to go yet folks.

For anybody who is interested in the detail there’s a really good leader on CNN, which goes into a lot more detail than the British press have done. It’s a quagmire.
edition.cnn.com/2023/08/02/politics/trump-latest-indictment-consequences/index.html

Trump has always maintained that once he gets the chance to tell “the truth” that he will be proved right in everything he says.

Now’s his chance.

I think most people want things put in simplistic terms. Politics isn’t black and white. There are a lot of grey areas. But people don’t vote for people who might say ‘I don’t actually know’. They want their politicians to speak in a positive way, even if what they say is undoable. Johnson is a prime example of that. Get Brexit Done. Take Back Control. Trump had Drain the Swamp. A Republican supporter on tv today was talking about ‘ the elite’ because he’d been brainwashed by Trump into thinking ‘the elite’ were to blame for everything. Over here it’s ‘migrants’. I know I’m in Gary Lineker territory here but we all know who Hitler blamed for everything. I honestly don’t know how we’re going to move on from all this.

DAR

The term populism has a particular meaning in political science. It does not mean popular.

I think, sometimes, people find it very easy to conveniently forget about the lack of morals in politicians.

Conservative voters in this country are, by majority, older people. Many are church goers, and many are traditionalists. According to them, anyway. The Grey vote, as they call it.

Yet, they turned a blind eye to Johnson, who was a self confessed adulterer, and a congenital liar, to boot. And he had huge support, at one time.

It's beyond me. 😗

I really thought we were rid of him. I can understand, up to a point, poor people voting for someone who promises them the earth but what I don’t understand is devout Christians voting for someone so immoral and women voting for him knowing his attitude towards them.

The idea of another 4 years of Trump is so appalling in world terms I just pray for the cases going through the court to stop in tracks.

I don’t think that Trump is a great public speaker, either! Unless you count pulling funny faces, clapping and pointing at people as being one.

BlueBelle

Well I m no great admirer of Tony Blair but he’s an intelligent man who did a lot of good for the country before the big mistake of taking us to war, how the hell you can connect him with Trump is beyond me and liken him to Hitler !!! Nanna8

Agree, it was a bizzare post.

That sounds about right Grantanow, if you think of the original just more than a third who see themselves as Republicans. We will no doubt have a great deal more television and radio telling us just how things are moving in the run up to the next election.

According to a recent poll (reported by Newsnight) 34% favour Trump and 34% Biden. That leaves 32% as don't knows or nonvoters. I hope there are enough to swing the election against Trump but the votes have to pass through the electoral college system which gives some States more weight. The various indictments should influence the don't knows against Trump unless he grabs control of the news agenda.

nanna8

Ask Boris, ask Tony Blair, ask Chairman Mao. People get swept along with enthusiasm, looking for a ‘saviour.’ It especially works well when people are poor and oppressed. Hitler was another example. You need a certain capability in public speaking,too.

I think people greatly overestimate those with a cult like view of populist leaders.

If you divide voters into three parts, right, center/independent and left they will be quite close in number but in the US the right will be slightly larger than the left. In the UK the left is slightly larger than the right and this is true in most of the colder countries of Europe.

Of the people on the right in the USA it is estimated that only 9% of the population, 30% of the 30%, are Trump's core. Like so many activists they are a very noisy group and seem larger than they are.

However Trump cannot win without attracting the rest of that group and possibly some from the center. Although these latest indictments may harden his core, it is also likely they will turn away some of those who are voting simply because he is the right wing candidate.

To know whether Tony Blair was a populist leader we would have to look back at the voting. You also need to take into account the fact that we do not vote for the leader in this country.

The politics in this country really are very different to the politics in the USA, although some people not do not seem to be aware of that. We really are very different countries.