White Privilege - MET Police

Fleurpepper

so am I, but I know why, and it is not my skin (2 artificial knees).

I must just look suspicious.

It is part of the terms and conditions of using bus, train or tube that you show a valid ticket or proof of payment if required. Everyone knows this.
Bus inspectors and police do not just ask one person on a bus, be they black or white. Same in a tube carriage, everyone’s tickets are checked.
It is nonsense to say otherwise not part of their remit do otherwise.
If someone decides to kick off at this not unreasonable request, they will be made aware that it is a criminal offence and should not expect a pat on the head.

The only time I’ve seen anyone refusing to show their tickets was on a train midway between Carlisle and Leeds. Four teenage lads thought they’d have a great laugh tormenting the guard and throwing their tickets back and forth across the table so he couldn’t inspect them.

At the next station four burly officials got on and marched them off without a word, amidst much wailing about how were they going to get home and how sorry they were, they were just having a laugh and here are our tickets, we’ve got tickets, you can’t throw us off when we’ve got tickets. We gave them a little wave as the train pulled away without them.

If she had just shown her bus ticket when asked the whole incident would have been avoided.

so am I, but I know why, and it is not my skin (2 artificial knees).

but the thing is, when, again, and again, and again some more- you are the only one who is asked, in the shops, at the airport, in the street, in public transport - again, and again- the only one- then no wonder you begin to react negatively

Oh no, that is me. I am white British. I am stopped.
At every airport.

DiamondLily

I've travelled on London buses all of my life, including with children, prams and shopping.

If asked to produce my ticket/pass, I have. They don't listen to "yes, I've paid".🙄

I cannot understand why this escalated into an argument - why didn't the mother just prove she'd paid? 🤔

As Riverwalk said 'From what I read she was getting off at the stop they all got on, she had a child, a buggy and shopping so had her hands full - not a great situation to have to get out your travel pass/mobile phone to prove you've paid'

but the thing is, when, again, and again, and again some more- you are the only one who is asked, in the shops, at the airport, in the street, in public transport - again, and again- the only one- then no wonder you begin to react negatively. I have seen it so so many times- the black person being the only one stopped, the only one asked, the only one targetted - and I think to mysel, why he, why she, why them? And how I would feel, when it happens, as said above, again and again, since you are a child.

I've travelled on London buses all of my life, including with children, prams and shopping.

If asked to produce my ticket/pass, I have. They don't listen to "yes, I've paid".🙄

I cannot understand why this escalated into an argument - why didn't the mother just prove she'd paid? 🤔

Iam64

Given the huge disparity in stop n search, driving while black, the awful search of the 15 year old girl etc etc I think suggesting this is some kind of set up to ensure film of two male police officers man handling a black woman over possible ticket avoidance is surprising

As I’m the only person to have mentioned the video in this case, I assume that you’re accusing me of suggesting that this was a set up.

As that had not crossed my mind, I suggest that you retract this and apologise.

i heard this reported on the radio and knew immediately it was a black woman.
as for filming what happens on the streets, yes of course, film everything; why not ?
would we have heard of george floyd if someone had not filmed it.

Given the huge disparity in stop n search, driving while black, the awful search of the 15 year old girl etc etc I think suggesting this is some kind of set up to ensure film of two male police officers man handling a black woman over possible ticket avoidance is surprising

Fare dodging is absolutely rife on London transport. It costs TFL many millions a year.
If the woman had paid her fare, why didn’t she just produce her ticket?

I recently had to show my ticket on a train. If I’d merely protested that of course I’d paid, I would never have expected the inspector to take my word for it.

Ticket inspectors appear regularly on trains.

And 'If they do nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear' - and so on.

The worst form of white privilege is to say 'ah, they've got such a chip on their shoulder, havent' they'

Maggiemaybe

To be fair, we only see a snapshot of the end of the incident, not what went before. The Met case is that they only intervened after the woman refused several times to show her ticket to an inspector, then to a PCSO. That she continued to refuse to show her ticket and walk away when they asked. Why would she do this? Some reports say she was abusive while on the bus, but without seeing the whole incident we just don’t know, do we?

From the man who filmed the incident, claiming to be her brother: Clement says that action must be taken and that he encourages people to film the police in order to get justice. He said: “I classed the woman as my sister. Any black woman in distress is my sister.”

Is this what we want, video vigilantism? What next? Do we want this to happen in our hospitals as well - cameras shoved into doctors’ faces and people ranting and swearing away demanding answers? Could you do your job in these circumstances? Surely we all know by now that selective video clips posted online rarely give a true picture.

Absolutely, and well said. Easier to edit a video, to show what people want us to see, to suit their own agenda. Inciting. Not the whole picture.

Bus tickets are the least of the problem

The police weren’t checking the bus tickets, Katie59. Bus inspectors were. The police were asked to stand by in case there were any problems. Which says something about our society.

Katie59

Bus tickets are the least of the problem there are thousands of cars that are being used without tax or insurance and nobody does anything, another is drug use, just casually condoned.
Cases were the suspect is aggressive from the start usually means the are trying to cover something up.

We have a plethora of observation vehicles checking number plates against the DVLC car registrations here Katie59, vehicles without road tax are reported, and have to take their documents, including their insurance to be checked. They get prosecuted if they are non compliant. Doesn’t that happen near you, I see them very regularly as they are marked vehicles?

Bus tickets are the least of the problem there are thousands of cars that are being used without tax or insurance and nobody does anything, another is drug use, just casually condoned.
Cases were the suspect is aggressive from the start usually means the are trying to cover something up.

To be fair, we only see a snapshot of the end of the incident, not what went before. The Met case is that they only intervened after the woman refused several times to show her ticket to an inspector, then to a PCSO. That she continued to refuse to show her ticket and walk away when they asked. Why would she do this? Some reports say she was abusive while on the bus, but without seeing the whole incident we just don’t know, do we?

From the man who filmed the incident, claiming to be her brother: Clement says that action must be taken and that he encourages people to film the police in order to get justice. He said: “I classed the woman as my sister. Any black woman in distress is my sister.”

Is this what we want, video vigilantism? What next? Do we want this to happen in our hospitals as well - cameras shoved into doctors’ faces and people ranting and swearing away demanding answers? Could you do your job in these circumstances? Surely we all know by now that selective video clips posted online rarely give a true picture.

My Father in law was an Inspector in The Metropolitan Police - he would have been horrified with what it has become.

Ticket inspectors and police work in twos, which is understandable, and I'm all for having random inspections, but is it really a good use of resources to have FOUR men board a bus to check for fare-dodgers?

From what I read she was getting off at the stop they all got on, she had a child, a buggy and shopping so had her hands full - not a great situation to have to get out your travel pass/mobile phone to prove you've paid

I've only seen the one video but based on that I think the officers were very heavy-handed. And was handcuffing her really necessary?

A bit of an odd story why were the police man handing her why was it necessary? As she had paid why not just show her ticket. Did she overreact when questioned.

I agree the woman shouldn’t have been so aggressive in front of her poor child. Surely a misunderstanding easily proved by showing her ticket instead of ranting and raving followed by an apology from the bus driver if required for not looking properly.
Have any of the posters used these services in Croydon, buses or trains? I have…….

This woman had paid her bus fare. Even if she hadn’t, do we want two police officers man handling a mother in front of her child?