Just Stop Oil? At What Cost?

Just Stop Oil are against NEW development, they are not advocating for the immediate cessation of all use

December 2020 "In a major policy shift, the PM will commit today to ending taxpayer support for fossil fuel projects overseas as soon as possible, as the government works to support the sector’s transition to low-carbon energy."

www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-announces-the-uk-will-end-support-for-fossil-fuel-sector-overseas

On 28th June 2023, the independent Climate Change Committee - tasked with advising the government on reducing greenhouse gas emissions - reported that it is failing to meet nearly every climate target. The decision to give the go-ahead on fossil fuel projects, such as a new oil and gas field in the North Sea, has contributed to the committee’s belief that the UK has “slipped behind”

Back in 2021, the world’s most influential energy watchdog, the International Energy Agency, said there was no room for new oil and gas expansion anywhere in the world if the global energy system is to reach net-zero by 2050

Let's try this again without all the emotional responses:

In most countries, demonstrations have to be notified to the local police in advance and can if a chief constable deems it necessary be refused permission.

Apparently, the Stop Oil Now demonstration had not been notified in advance, which probably means that demonstrators can be arrested and fined.

So there are three issues here:
illegal demonstrations, the cost of policing them, and the whole evironmental issue

Hardly surprising if there are many illegal demonstrations that the police get tired of policing them, and taxpayers annoyed at the amounts of money used to do so.

So let us be clear about the fact that the laws about when it is legal to assemble in public to demonstrate have to be obeyed.

That said, a demonstration timed so as not to inconvenience the general public is unlikely to focus the said public's awareness on whatever it is the demonstrators are demonstrating in aid of.

So it follows that demonstrations like strikes are planned to cause maximum attention of the issue and a fair amount of inconvenience in order to goad those who refuse to discuss the issue at stake to actually do so.

IMO we need to stop using fossil fuels as soon as possible, which means focusing on implementing alternatives NOW.

You do not need to approve of the manner in which people are demonstrating, but wake up and admit that their contention that the environmental crisis exists and must be solve as soon as possible is correct.

Yes, they were /are very disruptive and extreme but most of us are sleep walking ,trying to be oblivious to the fact that this planet is in deep crisis and if something isn't done soon it will, without a doubt, be a literal hell on earth for future generations.

We need to fly less, use our cars less, buy produce grown more locally, ( do I really need veg from Chile?) think twice before buying that unnecessary Chinese made item on Amazon, stop using plastic etc etc. But how many of us are taking responsibility in our daily lives? Vey few. I still see people buying packs of six, bottled water, shrink wrapped in plastic. Get one bottle and fill it from the tap!! .
It's easy to say one persons activities won't make any difference but if everyone was more aware it would all add up and help. Humans don't like the discomfort of change and ,yes, it's much easier to just hop in the car than get on the bus.

What motivates me is looking at my little grandchild and wondering what we are leaving for her to have to live through?

So my answer is it seems that drastic situations need drastic measures and these people are actually courageous and following their hearts.

It may be costing some money and inconvenient but it does bring the issue into focus. It will be costing trillions and trillions more to help all the droves of displaced people whose countries are no longer habitable because of raging fires, foods or famine.

Humans are slow learners and quick forgetters...we need reminding!

The problem is huge as the planet is set up in the way it is and changing all of that is a monumental task. But when I die I want to be able to say that at least I did what I could!

I worry that one day I might be behind a Stop Oil crowd stopping vehicles. I get agitated enough when I see them on the news that I just don’t know what I would do if I was close to them.
It’s just a waste of time and surely they could wear their Stop Oil shirts whilst doing some community good.
Our Police don’t help the situation and just stand and watch at best , socialise with the protesters at worst.
I saw some protesters in France who had superglued their hands to the road and Police were chiselling them off to screams of pain. They won’t do that again !
German film on YouTube showed glued hands being removed by cutting a chunk of road up with the hands still attached and the protestors being sent off carrying the piece of tarmac with hands attached! Again they won’t do that next time.
One day soon a motorist will lose control and a protestor will be run over or assaulted and we will have to blame the Police to allow this to happen.
I wonder how these protesters have the time to stroll along a road, some are retired I’m sure but not all.

The Gulf Stream may flip THE YEAR AFTER NEXT. Just Stop Oil and organisations like them are doing a great job publicising the utter necessity for an urgently accelerated green agenda, not the rowing-back that both Labour and the Tories are indulging in at the moment.

I understand the extreme actions of these panicked, evangelising activists - the media have been ramping up climate crisis for a while now. If it's all over the media, someone wants us to know, and be afraid - fearful people may be easier to control and may accept taxes and charges foisted on them by those much more wealthy and powerful. Follow the money. So I'm not sure what is really happening. Clearly we must be polluting and damaging but to what extent, and where is a complicated question. I do believe our right to be effing nuisances as we peacefully protest should be respected, but I have many doubts about so-called green policies. Surely electric cars are using energy generated by the grid?? And the batteries within them cause pollution, not to mention the fact that the substances needed to make them are obtained in cruel ways that are unfriendly to people and planet. I believe people need to stay calm, weigh things up more and stop getting panicked

electric vehicles have been around for hundreds of years ref BBC 2 7pm Tuesday but ford in America changed to petrol because the cars were cheaper and easier to manufacture.From this programme I fail to understand why we cant switch over quicker and make these cars affordable-- only a little step on the way but never the less a step. No I dont support the activists because they have caused people to miss hospital and other important appointments . I support the cause but not the blockades .

Whenever I see a report of a JSO protest, my first thought is, how did they get from home to the protest site? Did they walk? Did they use motorised transport of some kind?

I'd bet for most of them it'd be the second option.

I believe the Greek police have said the fires were caused by arsonists.

Just stop oil............these people will be seen as environmental heroes in the future....if there is one.

@EllieChowns

How loud do the alarm bells have to ring before the government wakes up?

The #ClimateEmergency is here already.

Now we need action. Only
@TheGreenParty
has the vision, commitment & policies needed.

2022 was UK’s warmest year on record, says Met Office

Sicily and Greece roads ‘burning’ in flames, sea temperatures higher

How many of you are storing photos you will probably never look at again in The Cloud.
Are you aware of how much electricity The Cloud is using.

www.greenamerica.org/faq/how-much-electricity-does-cloud-use#:~:text=In%202012%2C%20analysts%20at%20the,American%20homes%20in%20a%20year.

GG13 wattsupwiththat.com will be an easier read.

MaizieD

Here's the original paper

www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-39810-w

I note, from googling, that concern has been expressed about the possible failure of this system for a number of years.

I have seen this, but honestly didn’t understand a lot of it.

Here's the original paper

www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-39810-w

I note, from googling, that concern has been expressed about the possible failure of this system for a number of years.

I have read that if the Gulf Stream stayed permanently low (south of U.K.) then temperatures in Scandinavia and Scotland would/could plummet.

Trying to keep on top of all this does tend to scramble my brain.

MaizieD I haven’t got superior knowledge, just trying to get my unscientific brain round the situation.

I would love someone to explain to me in plain language the difference between the two.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

Good post, MOnica 👏

This airy assumption that we don't really need to act with any urgency is quite maddening..

I see in the Guardian today that some scientists think that the Gulf Stream could fail by 2025. I wonder how many GNetters appreciate the implications of this?

Atlantic Meridonal Overturning Circulation stopping is what scientists are apparently worried about.

The Gulf Stream is a product of the earth turning on its axis, this article is being challenged by many scientists as sloppy journalism at best or just wrong.

I'd always understood that the Gulf Stream flowed round the UK because of the Greenland ice tongue. Scientists a long time ago were saying that our climate would be adversely affected if the ice tongue melted and the Gulf Stream no longer reached the UK.

But I bow to superior knowledge...

The headline of the article is wrong, AMOC has apparently collapsed before, long before industrialisation.

It’s confusing for those who do not have a scientific brain (me included)

MaizieD

Good post, MOnica 👏

This airy assumption that we don't really need to act with any urgency is quite maddening..

I see in the Guardian today that some scientists think that the Gulf Stream could fail by 2025. I wonder how many GNetters appreciate the implications of this?

Atlantic Meridonal Overturning Circulation stopping is what scientists are apparently worried about.

The Gulf Stream is a product of the earth turning on its axis, this article is being challenged by many scientists as sloppy journalism at best or just wrong.

MaizieD

Good post, MOnica 👏

This airy assumption that we don't really need to act with any urgency is quite maddening..

I see in the Guardian today that some scientists think that the Gulf Stream could fail by 2025. I wonder how many GNetters appreciate the implications of this?

Pure scaremongering, the gulf stream is not going to fail in 2 yrs, so called experts including Attenborough have been predicting imminent doom for years, dont believe it. Why do Guardian readers believe such extreme opinions they are proved wrong time after time.

Incidentally if the Gulf Stream were to fail in the future we would not have to worry about global warming because our climate would become much colder.

MaizieD

^You know perfectly well Maisie that QE or printing money is accounted for in the same way as outside borrowing. As long as QE is controlled and costed it doesn't make any difference and of course is interest free.^

I think you don't have the slightest idea about fiat money creation, Katie59. What you have said makes no sense whatsoever.

I know that a government cannot create unlimited amounts of currency, because it will cause inflation and the exchange rate of the currency will fall.

There are plenty of examples of governments crashing the economy by printing money, or are you saying that the UK is exempt and can increase the money supply without limit

Good post, MOnica 👏

This airy assumption that we don't really need to act with any urgency is quite maddening..

I see in the Guardian today that some scientists think that the Gulf Stream could fail by 2025. I wonder how many GNetters appreciate the implications of this?

I’m not in favour of more spending on or more ambitious climate change targets, because the UK is amongst the highest achievers in that area. The UK is not isolated by climate change, we are likely to achieve the targets so spend what we have on Social improvements and Infrastructure developments.

You know perfectly well Maisie that QE or printing money is accounted for in the same way as outside borrowing. As long as QE is controlled and costed it doesn't make any difference and of course is interest free.

I think you don't have the slightest idea about fiat money creation, Katie59. What you have said makes no sense whatsoever.