Just Stop Oil? At What Cost?

MaizieD

We don't need investors, Katie59. We can supply the money ourselves.

And, if you are correct about the need to attract investment you've put your finger on the problem. The government isn't investing in the infrastructure and technology to attract them.

It's a vicious circle that needs breaking and government is the only agent that can break it. At no cost to the public and with big benefits for the economy.

You know perfectly well Maisie that QE or printing money is accounted for in the same way as outside borrowing. As long as QE is controlled and costed it doesn't make any difference and of course is interest free.

When/if there is budget availability I believe it should be spent on NHS, Social Care, Education, Housing and many other needs before increasing spending on Climate Change.

If we do not deal with climate change the rest will be irrelevant. The world conflict,internal and external, that will result as the populations of countries sinking beneath the waves look to find homes in other countries or in the parts of their countrystill above sea level above sea level - and sinking areas include most of eastern England - will cause internal conflict.

With continual internal and international movements, you can forget about education, a health service, care or housing would go by the board as economies breakdown

The people who will suffer this are alive already. They are our children and grandchildren.

We don't need investors, Katie59. We can supply the money ourselves.

And, if you are correct about the need to attract investment you've put your finger on the problem. The government isn't investing in the infrastructure and technology to attract them.

It's a vicious circle that needs breaking and government is the only agent that can break it. At no cost to the public and with big benefits for the economy.

MaizieD

Katie59

Maizie.

The Government is spending money to counter climate change it is costing us all a great deal in many ways, when/if there is a change in Westminster I do not believe policies will change significantly. When/if there is budget availability I believe it should be spent on NHS, Social Care, Education, Housing and many other needs before increasing spending on Climate Change.

That is why I believe the Stop Oil protesters are pointless and irrelevant, just a nuisance.

If only people would understand how our fiat money system works and stop believing that there is a finite amount of money available. And I include politicians and opinion formers in 'people'.

We have to include serious spending on climate change in that list of things that need to be done, not regard it as an afterthought...

You are in theory correct there is no finite amount of money available, and I believe that more should be invested. BUT there is a finite amount of confidence that financial investors have in the UK, if the UK was actually manufacturing the infrastructure to counter climate change and new technology investing more would be justified.
We are investing over £500m in the new battery plant in Somerset, it’s a start but much more needs to be done because currently almost everything else is imported.

Katie59

Maizie.

The Government is spending money to counter climate change it is costing us all a great deal in many ways, when/if there is a change in Westminster I do not believe policies will change significantly. When/if there is budget availability I believe it should be spent on NHS, Social Care, Education, Housing and many other needs before increasing spending on Climate Change.

That is why I believe the Stop Oil protesters are pointless and irrelevant, just a nuisance.

If only people would understand how our fiat money system works and stop believing that there is a finite amount of money available. And I include politicians and opinion formers in 'people'.

We have to include serious spending on climate change in that list of things that need to be done, not regard it as an afterthought...

Katie59

Gove for a change is talking sense, we will need gas and oil to keep the economy running well into the future it makes sense to find and preserve them for the future. We certainly should not sell them off for a quick buck, which is exactly what has happened with North Sea oil

There isn't going to be an economy to keep running if we don't restrict our use of fossil fuels to the very minimum needed for essential use.

The actions of these people (Stop Oil protesters) are one of the few positive things that I see happening these days. More power to them. They have my full support.

So, they disrupt people's lives for a short period of time - my goodness, the approaching climate chage is going to have far longer, far worse disruptions (as is being seen already in the happenings in South Europe!!!!

To reply to the original OP -' What should we do about them@, gthe answer is Give them ou full suppport.!!!!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Anniel

Crochet Bliss I just checked. BBC states that Matt Twist declared that these demonstrations had cost £7.7 million since April. This is an extremely large amount of money that the country cannot afford! In this case Guido was correct.

Ooh! Climate change will cost the kiddos much more than some protestors.

GrannyGravy13

There was a program on at 8pm BBC1 last night all about electric and hydrogen powered vehicles, very interesting.

We watched that too GG13, very interesting, more research is needed, including funding, into synthetic fuels.

Gove for a change is talking sense, we will need gas and oil to keep the economy running well into the future it makes sense to find and preserve them for the future. We certainly should not sell them off for a quick buck, which is exactly what has happened with North Sea oil

Maizie.

The Government is spending money to counter climate change it is costing us all a great deal in many ways, when/if there is a change in Westminster I do not believe policies will change significantly. When/if there is budget availability I believe it should be spent on NHS, Social Care, Education, Housing and many other needs before increasing spending on Climate Change.

That is why I believe the Stop Oil protesters are pointless and irrelevant, just a nuisance.

GrannyGravy13

There was a program on at 8pm BBC1 last night all about electric and hydrogen powered vehicles, very interesting.

Yes it was. A great pity that this country didn't keep up with the electrification of vehicles as seen in our milk floats from mychildhood, and many others. Our brown paper or shopping bags for groceries, our milk man, and the recycle glass bottles, for fizzy drinks too.. Could have done so much.

Katie59

MaizieD

Katie59

They are just pointless stunts by extremist lunatics, we are NOT going to stop oil any time soon.
Those who support their actions are just as responsible, and should be treated with the same contempt, they should just remember our entire food supply depends on tractors, trucks and other machinery running on oil.

What a hysterical reaction.

I doubt that anyone has the intention of immediately cutting off oil supplies for essential use. But the emphasis is on essential use. We need to be thinking war time strategies at the very least.

We need some leadership, too, that's prepared to take climate change seriously and treat it as the emergency it has clearly become.

Not hysterical I am supporting the progressive action that the UK government is taking reaching net zero, that is going to be a very difficult goal to achieve. Even then we will still be exporting our pollution by importing much of our needs, many in the UK are struggling to make ends meet and I don’t want extra cost to be imposed in addition.

So if you think supporting the UK policy is hysterical, you should look at your own opinions.

I think you are putting too much faith in a government that is in thrall to the moneyed interest and is not only spending far too little on green initiatives but is actually gearing up to weaponise them in the run up to the next General Election.

When Gove is talking about exploiting our fossil fuel reserves rather than severely curtailing their usage you have to wonder just how seriously the govt. is taking the threat to human life on earth.

Hetty58

Have we all written to our MPs? How many times? We desperately need strong government action, now, to slow down climate change.

We cannot stop it - so, living on a dying planet is the future we leave for our grandchildren. Proud? - No - but we can, at least, set a good example and talk to them about it. We can apologise.

Drive a bus? Hilarious - I don't have a licence, never did! Still, individual action does make a tiny difference, (but no, not enough).

Easybee and everyone - what do you do to make a difference? (Some seem to believe that recycling is quite enough (to damp down those guilty feelings, that is)).

What do I do?

I don't eat meat, I don't drive (funny thing is - I have these legs - so I can walk, cycle or use public transport).

I rarely travel by air or need to buy anything new.

I have solar panels and produce far more than I use - feeding it back to the grid.

I support local groups campaigning for cleaner air.

Not much, but a little - that's what I do. What about you?

Patronising in all aspects. What a Saint you profess to be. Bet you don't wear leather shoes, when you walk , a plastic rain coat. You don't eat meat, but you'll eat the processed vegan rubbish I see increasingly on our supermarket shelves. You don't drive, but you're lucky enough to have public transport, many places don't. Many people have disabilities, and can't walk far. When you start complaining about all the coal burners China and India are using, when the Welsh nimbys want a coal mine closed, but are happy to import it from other countries to supply their electricity needs, or to make steel. Shall we just shut down everything tomorrow. Just think of the chaos. My area is leading with wind power generation, all my electricity is green, billions are being spent on green energy, solar panels. But you want electric cars, batteries, containig metals that come from countries where people are exploited to mine it. When they stop and disrupt outside the Chinese and Indian embassies, then I may take notice of their antics, stopping people getting to hospital to take a sick child, is beyond the pale, and cannot be justified in the here and now.

There was a program on at 8pm BBC1 last night all about electric and hydrogen powered vehicles, very interesting.

MaizieD

Katie59

They are just pointless stunts by extremist lunatics, we are NOT going to stop oil any time soon.
Those who support their actions are just as responsible, and should be treated with the same contempt, they should just remember our entire food supply depends on tractors, trucks and other machinery running on oil.

What a hysterical reaction.

I doubt that anyone has the intention of immediately cutting off oil supplies for essential use. But the emphasis is on essential use. We need to be thinking war time strategies at the very least.

We need some leadership, too, that's prepared to take climate change seriously and treat it as the emergency it has clearly become.

Not hysterical I am supporting the progressive action that the UK government is taking reaching net zero, that is going to be a very difficult goal to achieve. Even then we will still be exporting our pollution by importing much of our needs, many in the UK are struggling to make ends meet and I don’t want extra cost to be imposed in addition.

So if you think supporting the UK policy is hysterical, you should look at your own opinions.

vegansrock

Don’t point the finger at China and India, the USA is up there in biggest polluters btw. We are enabling their pollution by buying all their cheap tat. It’s hard to buy anything that’s not made in China these days so we must look to ourselves and not merely blame others

Germany too their industrial prosperity is based on coal despite their green credentials
If the US develops their industrial capacity to reduce dependance on China they will become the biggest polluter

MaizieD just google pollution on London Underground. Won’t detail my source! But he is very knowledgeable, truthful, competent… academic etc etc.

Katie59

They are just pointless stunts by extremist lunatics, we are NOT going to stop oil any time soon.
Those who support their actions are just as responsible, and should be treated with the same contempt, they should just remember our entire food supply depends on tractors, trucks and other machinery running on oil.

What a hysterical reaction.

I doubt that anyone has the intention of immediately cutting off oil supplies for essential use. But the emphasis is on essential use. We need to be thinking war time strategies at the very least.

We need some leadership, too, that's prepared to take climate change seriously and treat it as the emergency it has clearly become.

Hetty there are no greener fuels available that are available to use and won’t be for many decades, 90%+ of the energy you personally use comes from fossil fuels.
We all want to use less fossil fuel, even the small quantity of renewable energy we use currently comes at high cost, maybe in the next century we will not be dependant on fossil fuels.
If we reach net zero in 2050 we will still import food and goods produced with fossil fuels

Oh well vegansrock it makes sense to use refillable food shops and locally sourced food plus buy less, buy second hand? Don’t buy from major polluting countries?
Although even refillable shops source products from all over the world ….

ronib

Hetty8 evidence - senior engineer at London Underground.
I think our worst enemy is China. But I agree with you - also the cost of energy is so high now that heating and air conditioning will be less used I guess.

Link?

'senior engineer at London Underground' is a bit of a vague source...

Don’t point the finger at China and India, the USA is up there in biggest polluters btw. We are enabling their pollution by buying all their cheap tat. It’s hard to buy anything that’s not made in China these days so we must look to ourselves and not merely blame others

Hetty8 evidence - senior engineer at London Underground.
I think our worst enemy is China. But I agree with you - also the cost of energy is so high now that heating and air conditioning will be less used I guess.