Independent candidates- the real threat to Labour?

Very few truly independent candidates have ever been elected.

The only one I can remember is Martin Bell, (the man in the white suit), who took the seat of the disgraced Tory Neill Hamilton, but only until the next election..

To OP
They are likely a threat to both big political parties especially next time GE.

Vera Baird was great. She investigated rape trials and had volunteers sitting in logging anything they considered to be even minor infringements, like denigrating the victim by defence counsels. I knew someone who did it. It's not something I think I could cope with, some horrific cases. If it will have any long term effects I'm not sure, but Vera really tried.

Oh it doesn't mean I particularly rate her , I was vaguely irritated at the assumption locally that we should vote for her amongst the labour candidates. However she was streets ahead in terms of what she put out and I did end up voting for her. I am not the best person to ask in some senses as I dont have a lot of faith in the positions such as police commissioner, and actually the position of mayor itself.

Galaxy

Yes I disagree strongly with the stance on Jamie Discroll. I am from the area however and would be surprised if Kim McGuinness doesnt win.

That's interesting. Most of the people I know regard her as a bit of a lightweight career politician, who took over a role which had been incredibly proactive, and has done nothing. Admittedly Vera Baird was a hard act to follow. But Jamie has a great track record.

Yes I disagree strongly with the stance on Jamie Discroll. I am from the area however and would be surprised if Kim McGuinness doesnt win.

I would only vote Labour in a GE, despite misgivings on some policies. It is more important to get this government out than anything else, IMO.

But the idea that that should be the end of the matter, and that the (currently shadow) cabinet should decide who we can vote for in things like mayoral elections doesn't wash with me. I think it is supremely arrogant to deselect a serving mayor in favour of a 'more suitable' (or biddable) candidate, and the LP leaders need to learn to respect the views of their constituents and voters.

Forget the mayoral election. The most important one is the General Election. There is clearly a danger in some constituencies of an Independent like Code splitting the Labour vote and letting the Tories in. The message to everyone who wants the Tories out is to ignore Independents and vote Labour (or tactically Lib Dem in some places).

I agree, varian.

I have often said on here that I think the idea of a 'right' and 'left' dichotomy is false. People are not robots, and aren't going to buy into everything a particular party puts forward. It always amazes me when posters are surprised that someone who disagrees with them on one topic is in agreement on another. Why wouldn't they be? The only people I've known who are entirely consistent in their proclaimed views tend to be ranting ideologists who don't appear to have considered things very deeply (eg someone I know who claims to be a revolutionary Marxist yet makes a living from a portfolio of rented properties ).

Yes, we tend to skew to one 'side' or the other overall, and we have to vote for someone, but I don't see 'left' and 'right' as being as simplistic as is often portrayed online.

Glorianny

Casdon

I didn’t think the mayoral election was until May 2024 Glorianny? There’s a huge amount of water to go under the bridge before then, whatever allegiances people have. I think there’s a chance that the general election will be held at the same time, the pundits are saying most likely dates are May or October next year.

Who else do you think falls into the category you’re describing of left wing populists who would stand a chance of election as independents, if they were to follow Driscoll’s example and leave the Labour Party (or have already left), assuming they are already either MPs or could beat standing MPs?

It isn't Casdon Jamie set up a fundraising page when he was banned and said if he raised £25k by August he would stand as an independent- the site is currently at almost £126k.
Mostly small amounts from ordinary people
www.gofundme.com/f/jamie-driscoll-for-north-east-mayor
I do wonder if it could herald a new way of funding candidates.

Maybe, if they are popular enough to get that level of support. There aren’t many Driscoll equivalents out there though, and unless candidates have both the proven track record and the personality I can’t see it happening to any great degree.

The fundamental problem is that the UK is not a democracy.

MPs are elected by First Past The Post which results in most voters being represented by someone they voted against and a party with only a minority of votes gaining a huge majority of seats in the House of Commons meaning they can do exactly what they want, against the wishes of the British people, until the next election.

If we ever became a democracy, like almost all other European countries, we would elect our representatives by proportional representation, meaning that every vote would count.

The two big parties could then split into groups which actually agreed on policies which were far right, centre right, centre left and far left.

Voters could then have a proper choice.

nanna8

They call them ‘Teals’ here and they get an inordinate amount of power because they are able to stop various bills and hold the main parties to ransom!

I had long conversations with DS about the effect your "Teals" where having nanna.

For those that don't follow the Australian politics, the name came as mixture of blue (Liberal in Australia) and green (Green) with Independants being swept up in it as well.

As I understood, the description "teal" took off but they didn't stand under a joint "Teal" flag. That makes it even more amazing to me that they did so well. I wonder why it took off the way it did?

Casdon

I didn’t think the mayoral election was until May 2024 Glorianny? There’s a huge amount of water to go under the bridge before then, whatever allegiances people have. I think there’s a chance that the general election will be held at the same time, the pundits are saying most likely dates are May or October next year.

Who else do you think falls into the category you’re describing of left wing populists who would stand a chance of election as independents, if they were to follow Driscoll’s example and leave the Labour Party (or have already left), assuming they are already either MPs or could beat standing MPs?

It isn't Casdon Jamie set up a fundraising page when he was banned and said if he raised £25k by August he would stand as an independent- the site is currently at almost £126k.
Mostly small amounts from ordinary people
www.gofundme.com/f/jamie-driscoll-for-north-east-mayor
I do wonder if it could herald a new way of funding candidates.

Jamie Driscoll is the North of the Tyne Mayor.
He was banned from the selection process (apparently) for the new role of North East Mayor en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_North_East_mayoral_election
because he shared a platform with Ken Loach the film director who has been thrown out of the LP.
He has now resigned from the LP (Jamie)
He's been an excellent mayor, whose policies are forward thinking. He's managed to relate to many local people.

The Cooperative Party is a separate organisation but has close connections with the LP and some MPs are members of both party.coop/about/
I don't understand how the two organisations are remaining together. The Co-op being committed to public ownership.

If I understood correctly Jamie Driscoll, a member of Momentum, is the current Mayor. He was banned from the selection process for Labour candidate in next year’s election for mayor, so he is running as an Independent.

Has he been expelled from the Labour Party Glorianny? I’m not sure if Momentum still exists.

If he’s been a good mayor people will want to keep him.

My MP, Sir Mark Hendrick, is described as Labour Co-Operative. I’m not entirely sure what that means.

Ilovecheese

The idea that independents could split the vote and let in a Tory might make Keir Starmer hesitate before barring popular left wing figures from standing.
Emma Dent Code is considering standing as an independent.

That's what I was getting at above, and IMO it will be no bad thing.

Starmer and the shadow cabinet are starting to look a lot more pragmatic and vote-focused (eg the shifts on GRC and acceptance that a woman is an 'adult female'). They have lost a lot of ground on that one, and will need to try harder (eg by saying what female means to them), but it is clear that they are listening to majority opinion and making decisions accordingly. If this means accepting that their voters cover a spectrum of political opinion, I'll be pleased to see it happen.

What is JD's position on trans issues, Glorianny?

The idea that independents could split the vote and let in a Tory might make Keir Starmer hesitate before barring popular left wing figures from standing.
Emma Dent Code is considering standing as an independent.

I didn’t think the mayoral election was until May 2024 Glorianny? There’s a huge amount of water to go under the bridge before then, whatever allegiances people have. I think there’s a chance that the general election will be held at the same time, the pundits are saying most likely dates are May or October next year.

Who else do you think falls into the category you’re describing of left wing populists who would stand a chance of election as independents, if they were to follow Driscoll’s example and leave the Labour Party (or have already left), assuming they are already either MPs or could beat standing MPs?

Doodledog it is about what the results of this could mean when a GE happens. As I see it there are two major possibilities. Jamie may well get in because he has a lot of local support and many Labour people feel Starmer is destroying the party. There could be a split vote with some Labour supporters going for Jamie and some for McGuiness, this might mean a Conservative mayor.
Whatever the result I think there are lessons Starmer will need to learn from the fact that Jamie is able to stand.
Firstly that the party is not as supported as it once was in the NE and he will need to look at ways of building bridges
Secondly that if he does not do so and independent candidates stand as MPs, some may be elected and some may split the vote with disastrous results for the LP.
Starmer has been busy making changes to accommodate the right of the party, he'll need to do something to keep the left on board.

This is not about the election though - Driscoll is standing for Mayor, not as an MP.

They call them ‘Teals’ here and they get an inordinate amount of power because they are able to stop various bills and hold the main parties to ransom!

It shouldn’t be left or right it should be what’s best for the country and I won’t be voting for a main party I will be voting for the other because the other two are useless and I definitely won’t vote for mr turnaround who still struggling to know what a woman is and I felt that strongly about it I joined women’s rights

DaisyAnneReturns

I like the idea of really independent people standing.

As for this man, you are obviously biased towards him Glorianny so it might be fun to join his campaign team.

I don't think it is just a question of bias. Had Jamie been permitted to stand as a candidate for the Labour party and been rejected in favour of Kim McGuiness I think most would have accepted the decision. It's the undemocratic ruling which upset so many. Most of the money raised has been small amounts from people who are disillusioned with Labour.

Casdon

Glorianny

I agree that this election isn't significant for the rest of the country but there are two important factors involved which are.
Jamie has shown that it is possible to raise a substantial sum of money to run an independent campaign.
The Labour vote will be split.
From this we could see significant numbers of seats where an independent will stand. And realise that this would split the Labour vote, so allowing a Conservative in.
The number of independent MPs might remain low, but a Labour victory would not be certain.

Why would the people you are referring to stand as independents Glorianny, why would they not work collectively and form a party which embodies their beliefs? I ask that because independent MPs would usually be non partisan, and vote issue by issue, not disaffected members of a party who share a very similar belief to each other?

Possibly because it is now easier to raise the money to stand as an independent and the creation of a new party would take a great deal of time, possibly also because they consider themselves to be the "real" LP.

I like the idea of really independent people standing.

As for this man, you are obviously biased towards him Glorianny so it might be fun to join his campaign team.