Independent candidates- the real threat to Labour?

I’m guessing that Driscoll will win, but I honestly don’t think this should be seen as significant in relation to the GE.

I agree with Whitewave. This election is relevant to you Glorianny because I think you live in the area, but probably to the rest of the country, not so much.

I was thinking about this the other day, as I’m reading Martin Bell’s autobiography at the moment, which is really interesting (behind the curve I know). I don’t think there will be many if any disaffected former prominent members of political parties in parliament next time, and if there are they won’t have much influence. It would be good to see some independent MPs though, a few productive disrupters who would be able to puncture the pompous and would have some credibility with the public. Maybe Ian Hislop?

I don't think they will be a threat to Labour, they are very unlikely to support the Conservatives. They could be a sort of voice of conscience if Starmer goes too far to the right.
I think also that what happened to Jamie Driscoll is of interest outside his own area. It showed just how authoritarian Keir Starmer is.

This is a thorny one, I think.

I don't think that independent councillors are a real threat to the main parties, but if public support puts them in power it might stop extremism in the form of people whose faces don't fit being deselected, so allow the main parties to represent their members and their constituents. The electorate should be able to decide who they want as mayors or MPs, and the parties have to respect that and represent their members.

OTOH, I understand that the point of a party is that it has particular views, and if a representative doesn't align with those views they pose a problem, so if the only way is to be independent, so be it. There is no saying that Independents will necessarily get in, but people should get to choose, as that's what democracy is supposed to be about.

Ilovecheese

I don't think they will be a threat to Labour, they are very unlikely to support the Conservatives. They could be a sort of voice of conscience if Starmer goes too far to the right.
I think also that what happened to Jamie Driscoll is of interest outside his own area. It showed just how authoritarian Keir Starmer is.

Also, I agree with this.

I resigned my LP membership over this - it is far more than a 'local issue'. I was already unsure about my membership given the LP stance on women's rights, and this deselection was the final straw. I hope Driscoll gets in - he and Andy Burnham will be a formidable balance to whichever party wins the GE, and whatever their politics people need to have that, I think, particularly in areas that are supposed to be 'levelling up' but get forgotten.

I agree that this election isn't significant for the rest of the country but there are two important factors involved which are.
Jamie has shown that it is possible to raise a substantial sum of money to run an independent campaign.
The Labour vote will be split.
From this we could see significant numbers of seats where an independent will stand. And realise that this would split the Labour vote, so allowing a Conservative in.
The number of independent MPs might remain low, but a Labour victory would not be certain.

But Driscoll is standing for mayor, not as an MP.

Glorianny

I agree that this election isn't significant for the rest of the country but there are two important factors involved which are.
Jamie has shown that it is possible to raise a substantial sum of money to run an independent campaign.
The Labour vote will be split.
From this we could see significant numbers of seats where an independent will stand. And realise that this would split the Labour vote, so allowing a Conservative in.
The number of independent MPs might remain low, but a Labour victory would not be certain.

Why would the people you are referring to stand as independents Glorianny, why would they not work collectively and form a party which embodies their beliefs? I ask that because independent MPs would usually be non partisan, and vote issue by issue, not disaffected members of a party who share a very similar belief to each other?

It's the significance of the vote and the independent stand that matters though. There will be others Starmer has rejected whose views do not match his, but who have local influence, and who believe that Labour policies do not match the needs of local people, who will stand as independents.

I like the idea of really independent people standing.

As for this man, you are obviously biased towards him Glorianny so it might be fun to join his campaign team.

Casdon

Glorianny

I agree that this election isn't significant for the rest of the country but there are two important factors involved which are.
Jamie has shown that it is possible to raise a substantial sum of money to run an independent campaign.
The Labour vote will be split.
From this we could see significant numbers of seats where an independent will stand. And realise that this would split the Labour vote, so allowing a Conservative in.
The number of independent MPs might remain low, but a Labour victory would not be certain.

Why would the people you are referring to stand as independents Glorianny, why would they not work collectively and form a party which embodies their beliefs? I ask that because independent MPs would usually be non partisan, and vote issue by issue, not disaffected members of a party who share a very similar belief to each other?

Possibly because it is now easier to raise the money to stand as an independent and the creation of a new party would take a great deal of time, possibly also because they consider themselves to be the "real" LP.

DaisyAnneReturns

I like the idea of really independent people standing.

As for this man, you are obviously biased towards him Glorianny so it might be fun to join his campaign team.

I don't think it is just a question of bias. Had Jamie been permitted to stand as a candidate for the Labour party and been rejected in favour of Kim McGuiness I think most would have accepted the decision. It's the undemocratic ruling which upset so many. Most of the money raised has been small amounts from people who are disillusioned with Labour.

It shouldn’t be left or right it should be what’s best for the country and I won’t be voting for a main party I will be voting for the other because the other two are useless and I definitely won’t vote for mr turnaround who still struggling to know what a woman is and I felt that strongly about it I joined women’s rights

They call them ‘Teals’ here and they get an inordinate amount of power because they are able to stop various bills and hold the main parties to ransom!

This is not about the election though - Driscoll is standing for Mayor, not as an MP.

Doodledog it is about what the results of this could mean when a GE happens. As I see it there are two major possibilities. Jamie may well get in because he has a lot of local support and many Labour people feel Starmer is destroying the party. There could be a split vote with some Labour supporters going for Jamie and some for McGuiness, this might mean a Conservative mayor.
Whatever the result I think there are lessons Starmer will need to learn from the fact that Jamie is able to stand.
Firstly that the party is not as supported as it once was in the NE and he will need to look at ways of building bridges
Secondly that if he does not do so and independent candidates stand as MPs, some may be elected and some may split the vote with disastrous results for the LP.
Starmer has been busy making changes to accommodate the right of the party, he'll need to do something to keep the left on board.

I didn’t think the mayoral election was until May 2024 Glorianny? There’s a huge amount of water to go under the bridge before then, whatever allegiances people have. I think there’s a chance that the general election will be held at the same time, the pundits are saying most likely dates are May or October next year.

Who else do you think falls into the category you’re describing of left wing populists who would stand a chance of election as independents, if they were to follow Driscoll’s example and leave the Labour Party (or have already left), assuming they are already either MPs or could beat standing MPs?

The idea that independents could split the vote and let in a Tory might make Keir Starmer hesitate before barring popular left wing figures from standing.
Emma Dent Code is considering standing as an independent.

Ilovecheese

The idea that independents could split the vote and let in a Tory might make Keir Starmer hesitate before barring popular left wing figures from standing.
Emma Dent Code is considering standing as an independent.

That's what I was getting at above, and IMO it will be no bad thing.

Starmer and the shadow cabinet are starting to look a lot more pragmatic and vote-focused (eg the shifts on GRC and acceptance that a woman is an 'adult female'). They have lost a lot of ground on that one, and will need to try harder (eg by saying what female means to them), but it is clear that they are listening to majority opinion and making decisions accordingly. If this means accepting that their voters cover a spectrum of political opinion, I'll be pleased to see it happen.

What is JD's position on trans issues, Glorianny?

If I understood correctly Jamie Driscoll, a member of Momentum, is the current Mayor. He was banned from the selection process for Labour candidate in next year’s election for mayor, so he is running as an Independent.

Has he been expelled from the Labour Party Glorianny? I’m not sure if Momentum still exists.

If he’s been a good mayor people will want to keep him.

My MP, Sir Mark Hendrick, is described as Labour Co-Operative. I’m not entirely sure what that means.

Jamie Driscoll is the North of the Tyne Mayor.
He was banned from the selection process (apparently) for the new role of North East Mayor en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_North_East_mayoral_election
because he shared a platform with Ken Loach the film director who has been thrown out of the LP.
He has now resigned from the LP (Jamie)
He's been an excellent mayor, whose policies are forward thinking. He's managed to relate to many local people.

The Cooperative Party is a separate organisation but has close connections with the LP and some MPs are members of both party.coop/about/
I don't understand how the two organisations are remaining together. The Co-op being committed to public ownership.

Casdon

I didn’t think the mayoral election was until May 2024 Glorianny? There’s a huge amount of water to go under the bridge before then, whatever allegiances people have. I think there’s a chance that the general election will be held at the same time, the pundits are saying most likely dates are May or October next year.

Who else do you think falls into the category you’re describing of left wing populists who would stand a chance of election as independents, if they were to follow Driscoll’s example and leave the Labour Party (or have already left), assuming they are already either MPs or could beat standing MPs?

It isn't Casdon Jamie set up a fundraising page when he was banned and said if he raised £25k by August he would stand as an independent- the site is currently at almost £126k.
Mostly small amounts from ordinary people
www.gofundme.com/f/jamie-driscoll-for-north-east-mayor
I do wonder if it could herald a new way of funding candidates.

nanna8

They call them ‘Teals’ here and they get an inordinate amount of power because they are able to stop various bills and hold the main parties to ransom!

I had long conversations with DS about the effect your "Teals" where having nanna.

For those that don't follow the Australian politics, the name came as mixture of blue (Liberal in Australia) and green (Green) with Independants being swept up in it as well.

As I understood, the description "teal" took off but they didn't stand under a joint "Teal" flag. That makes it even more amazing to me that they did so well. I wonder why it took off the way it did?