What kind of father sacrifices his children in order, he thinks, to win an election

Glorianny my sincere apologies

Greciangirl this one's definitely for you! But before you click on the link, please read M0nica's post for you and take heed. You aare part of the cause of the climate emergency, just as we all are.

theconversation.com/climate-explained-how-much-of-climate-change-is-natural-how-much-is-man-made-123604

Apparently thre is a scheme in Wales for households without mains gas to have solar panels, heat source pumps and insulation fitted free. It all sounds encouraging.

However, I heard of someone who is in the process of having this done and it is causing chaos in their home as the oil fired boiler and radiators are removed leaving areas to be plastered and the house redecorated, added to which some parts are temporarily unavailable so they are living in chaos.

Does anyone know how effective and reliable heat source pumps are, particularly if there is a very cold winter?

That's interesting Callistemon21 a similar scheme for N. Ireland would seem to be needed. They didn't have any gas until 1996 and 2 out of 3 households still use oil, but of course there isn't the profit for energy companies in green energy sources. www.northernireland.gov.uk/topics/energy/gas

Ours is excellent but it was fitted when the property was built. We have underfloor heating. It kept us warm during the very low temperatures last winter even though we have vast expanses of glass. I don’t know if retro fitted systems are as efficient.

That sounds horrendously expensive - and yes, having a heat pump and new radiators and the old boiler removed would be very disruptive and there would be a lot of making good to do.

I don't know if the firm will replaster where needed but I shouldn't imagine they would redecorate afterwards.

This scheme is for people under a certain income level so the cost of having the whole house redecorated afterwards could be prohibitive for some people.
If, of course, you can find a decorator who is free before at least January next year!

I suppose that if you can't weigh the turmoil of the installation and the cost of making good against the offer free expensive equipment and insulation which will cut your future costs of heating and electricity, and make it a positive, then you could turn down the offer?

P,S Having spent my entire adult life doing my own home decorating (except when part of the house was flooded and the house insurance covered the redecorating cost) I wouldn't view the redecorating as a major issue. But that's just a personal view.

We've always done our own decorating until recently but it's beyond us now and the person I was told about is in her 80s, sitting in a tiny space in the middle of chaos while the parts are awaited.

MaizieD

I suppose that if you can't weigh the turmoil of the installation and the cost of making good against the offer free expensive equipment and insulation which will cut your future costs of heating and electricity, and make it a positive, then you could turn down the offer?

I think the question is - how efficient and how reliable are heat source pumps?
The outsude oil fired boiler and tank are taken away so, in a particularly severe winter, how would the pump compared with oil central heating?
If it doesn't keep the house warm whst then?

Typos, I was multi-tasking.

MaizieD

P,S Having spent my entire adult life doing my own home decorating (except when part of the house was flooded and the house insurance covered the redecorating cost) I wouldn't view the redecorating as a major issue. But that's just a personal view.

We do our own decorating, repairs, fittings. No problems, IMO.

Well, bully for you.

Callistemon21

Well, bully for you.

I did say it was a personal view. No doubt that is Norah's personal view too.

I appreciate that others might think differently, but all the modestly waged people I knew did their own decorating too.

MaizieD

Callistemon21

Well, bully for you.

I did say it was a personal view. No doubt that is Norah's personal view too.

I appreciate that others might think differently, but all the modestly waged people I knew did their own decorating too.

Yes, my view. Modest living never really changes what one views as extravagance. However, don't question our holidays.

But the real question mark is over the efficiency of air source heat pumps (which I assume are the type being fitted)

I've always understood that they are more effective when used in conjunction with underfloor heating, but I also have seen that the modern ones are more efficient than the earlier models, so a larger radiator area and really good insulation may be all that's needed.

The cost comparisons I found ranged from good to modest savings. They are driven by electricity so I suppose that if you have PV panels too that should help with the cost of running them. Though ideally you would need some battery storage for the months when there is less light for the panels. That's quite expensive still.

No doubt that is Norah's personal view too
Norah questioned why anyone would not.

MaizieD

But the real question mark is over the efficiency of air source heat pumps (which I assume are the type being fitted)

I've always understood that they are more effective when used in conjunction with underfloor heating, but I also have seen that the modern ones are more efficient than the earlier models, so a larger radiator area and really good insulation may be all that's needed.

The cost comparisons I found ranged from good to modest savings. They are driven by electricity so I suppose that if you have PV panels too that should help with the cost of running them. Though ideally you would need some battery storage for the months when there is less light for the panels. That's quite expensive still.

I haven't investigated them but assumed they might blow ducted warm air and didn't realise they need radiators or that they can work by underfloor heating.
Obviously tearing up all the floors in an older house wouldn't be practical.

I think the concern our friend had was that her existing heating system would be removed. Her bills are low anyway as the house is well insulated.

I think the concern our friend had was that her existing heating system would be removed if she found the heat pump wasn't efficient.

Anyway, if anyone is interested:

freeheatingscheme.org/switch-to-renewable-energy-wales/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=wales-switch&utm_term=heat%20pump&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw5remBhBiEiwAxL2M96sGRWo1WPNoApDoRwG3EoLmLuWF_G5t6upXS2aFxW03KTuzbcu0IBoCgIMQAvD_BwE

Avoid using wood burning stoves if possible. England alone, polluted air leads to up to 38,000 premature deaths each year

energysavingclub.co.uk/

Underfloor heating works well with heat pumps. I don’t have experience of using them with radiators. They definitely aren’t designed to blow heat out of ducts - yuk, the dust!

I’m all for saving the planet but I can’t imagine how such huge expenditure to stop people using gas can be afforded.

But it is going to have to be afforded one day not so far in the future. A way will have to be found.

A small group of sheltered bungalows I know of were converted from electric night storage heating to an air-source pump system, about 7 years ago. Results have been mixed.

Some people are satisfied with both efficiency and bills, others have found they are never warm enough and water never heats above tepid. One person’s system has, after years of problems and enormous bills, been found to have been incorrectly installed. (I think there are question marks about the general quality of installation in this particular project).

Installation was extremely disruptive in these very small bungalows. Under-floor heating was not installed. The large outdoor fans (?) seem to generate a lot of condensation, and trays and pipes have had to be installed to take the resulting water down to ground level, resulting in patches of ice in very cold weather.

All in all, and taking into account possible installation faults, these results would dissuade me from installing this system as a replacement, but not necessarily from incorporating it into a new-build, which sounds much more successful.

They definitely aren’t designed to blow heat out of ducts - yuk, the dust!

I remember some 1960s houses were built with ducted warm air, can't remember it producing dust in my relative's house. Perhaps she whizzed round cleaning twice a day! (Wouldn't be surprised.)