Is UK An Elite Dictaorship?

I hope we never have another referendum, to be honest.

People are still arguing and fighting over the last one. It proved to be so divisive.

Best bet is try to elect whatever party you support, and hope they stick to their manifesto.

GrannyGravy I know, and I understand that a referendum on every subject wouldn’t work, and therefore I’m unsure what the answer is really. Another point made in the article is about the lack of policing of minor crimes. These are the crimes that actually affect most people ie burglaries, but now victims simply receive a crime number for insurance purposes. Do the majority of the people really want that? Or do they want the police to at least try to solve the crime? I don’t know the answers to these problems GrannyGravy but it seems to me that the views of the public are being ignored. I don’t think a change of government will make any difference because pretty much all the politicians are signed up to these policies and in any case, there’s not the money available because we spent such a lot on Covid. To be honest, I find it all quite depressing.

As far as I recall, the referendum about changing the system, it was a condition of the LDs joining the coalition.

I can't remember the construct of it.

QuoteDiamondLily Fri 04-Aug-23 08:06:05
A vote was held, under the Tory coalition, to see if we wanted to change our voting system from FPTP - the vote was overwhelmingly "no"

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that people were unhappy with the specific alternative being proposed, rather than happy with the fptp system, which is slightly different.

If a government doesn't actually want things to change, but wants to give the impression that they are giving the little people a choice, it is reasonably easy to only offer a substandard alternative that they are confident will be rejected if put to the vote.

Not that this 'game' is 100% reliable, of course!

Glorianny

Honestly as we currently have a government which has abandoned the human rights act, is in breach of international human rights law and has restricted the right to protest, the concept that everything is being attacked by the radical left is laughable. Or it would be if this sort of rubbish was ignored, unfortunately it will be taken seriously by some. Our democracy is under attack, our rights and freedoms are being eroded, but it isn't the left doing it www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/12/human-rights-watch-issues-damning-verdict-uk

Haven’t noticed any lack of protests?

If anything they are increasing…

Honestly as we currently have a government which has abandoned the human rights act, is in breach of international human rights law and has restricted the right to protest, the concept that everything is being attacked by the radical left is laughable. Or it would be if this sort of rubbish was ignored, unfortunately it will be taken seriously by some. Our democracy is under attack, our rights and freedoms are being eroded, but it isn't the left doing it www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/12/human-rights-watch-issues-damning-verdict-uk

Yes, of course people have a lot of worries at the moment.

But, if you are struggling, are fed up with how the country is being run, then that's exactly the time to make sure you have a vote, in order to try and change things.

That's the only way to change anything.

maddyone I understand what you mean by the electorate not having a say on everything, but really wouldn’t like to go down the road of being governed by a referendum on every major issue. We have no choice other than to put our X on the ballot paper and hope that they will do as laid lit in their manifesto.

Brexit referendum was not particularly successful from whatever side you were/are on.

Well in theory that is arguable, but at a time of falling voter percentages, increasing distrust and disinterest in our political system, I don't think it was a bright idea to introduce it.

There was no evidence of the need as in notable fraud. A lot of people decide on the day, and we have disempowered people.

Yes in an ideal world everyone would eagerly make the effort and get their ID's, but at a time so many people are worried about where their next meal might come from, overwhelming bills coming in, it wasn't on the list of must do's.

I think we have got massive inequality in this country, but I don't follow the logic that Labour voters would be the only ones disenfranchised by this.

In fact, I think it was Rees Mogg, during one of the recent by elections, that said the Tories had been adversely affected, because many older voters (their core group, as they say), didn't have the right ID.

We've got a Mayoral election here, in London, next May, and along with the usual voter form we have to do once a year, the council are already telling people how to get the free ID.

There is plenty of time before whenever a general election may be, to get a card.

If you don’t have voterID how would you know if some people voted several times? Just curious.

I do agree however, that our democracy is not as robust as it was, for a variety of reasons.

No, we don’t live in a dictatorship, but I don’t believe we truly live in a democracy either. One vote every five years is not really a democracy. Governments then enact policies that often weren’t on their manifesto and they don’t ask for the public’s view. I’m unsure for example, that the majority of the public are in favour of NetZero being brought in in such a short time. Do the public really want to be impoverished by the enforcement of them all buying a heat pump, which is an inferior method of heating, in a little over ten years? Do the public really want that? Or would they prefer to wait a little longer for the technology to improve? Likewise electric cars? Does everyone want an electric car which by any measure is more expensive and less efficient than the now very clean petrol cars? In my view, the public want neither of these things until the government put the necessary money into the infrastructure, and the technology improves, which of course it will. If the public was asked on either of these issues my view is they’d say no.
There are a number of other policies that the government are rushing into without the consent of the people. And unfortunately, a change of government will not make the first bit of difference!

The article is behind a paywall, but I did read the first paragraph and it seems to me that it is another of those silly articles so beloved by populists, who like to talk about elites, division, clearing the swamp, “the people” etc.

No, I agree. If you want to vote, then just get some ID.

I even needed proof to renew my Blue Badge.

There's plenty I could slate this government for, but trying to prevent voter fraud is not a hill I'd die on in battle.🙂

maddyone

There nothing wrong with voter ID in my opinion. If people can’t be bothered to get the free ID offered, they can’t be that bothered about voting.

That’s exactly my opinion.

There nothing wrong with voter ID in my opinion. If people can’t be bothered to get the free ID offered, they can’t be that bothered about voting.

MaizieD

Mollygo

I don’t think we live in a dictatorship. It’s the wrong word, but I do think he makes several good points.
DL I don’t think voter ID is a particularly bad idea. As you say, ID is needed for so many things today, but people resent being told they have to have anything.
Best example?
One dog walking friend who happily made the trip to collect his bus pass and willingly made the trips to a centre and queued up for a Covid vaccinations, ranted about having to go and get an ID card just so he could vote.

Just an example of the many people who cannot tell the difference between necessary ID and unnecessary ID. All ID is not the same.

Demanding ID for voting is unnecessary and removes a right. It disenfranchises people.

Extraordinary that we've only had, out of our thousands of years of history, universal adult suffrage for just short of 100 years and people are happily throwing away the principle of an unconditional right to vote because the most corrupt and authoritarian government in our recent history introduced compulsory voter ID in the hope that it would most adversely affect their opponent's voters.

I can tell the difference, but if I go into my bank to do anything much, they want ID.

When I registered my DHs death, they wanted ID.

To get benefits, they require ID.

All essential services,

This was trialled in my area, before the roll out, and it didn't seem to cause many problems. But, as I say, the council was constantly advertising how to get free voter ID for residents.

To be honest, because of health, I've had to switch to postal voting. That was easy, but I still had to prove who I was to get this.

It's just life now.🙂

Thank you Doodledog for summarising how I feel about the state of the UK, so well.

My daughter has been living in Oz for 3.5 years, and wants to stay permanently - I wish her well, as I know she's got a better life there. (Although I miss her!)

My mum can't understand why she wants to live there, (she's never been) and I keep saying to her - how can I convince her to live here, the way this country is going?

Mollygo

I don’t think we live in a dictatorship. It’s the wrong word, but I do think he makes several good points.
DL I don’t think voter ID is a particularly bad idea. As you say, ID is needed for so many things today, but people resent being told they have to have anything.
Best example?
One dog walking friend who happily made the trip to collect his bus pass and willingly made the trips to a centre and queued up for a Covid vaccinations, ranted about having to go and get an ID card just so he could vote.

Just an example of the many people who cannot tell the difference between necessary ID and unnecessary ID. All ID is not the same.

Demanding ID for voting is unnecessary and removes a right. It disenfranchises people.

Extraordinary that we've only had, out of our thousands of years of history, universal adult suffrage for just short of 100 years and people are happily throwing away the principle of an unconditional right to vote because the most corrupt and authoritarian government in our recent history introduced compulsory voter ID in the hope that it would most adversely affect their opponent's voters.

I don’t think we live in a dictatorship. It’s the wrong word, but I do think he makes several good points.
DL I don’t think voter ID is a particularly bad idea. As you say, ID is needed for so many things today, but people resent being told they have to have anything.
Best example?
One dog walking friend who happily made the trip to collect his bus pass and willingly made the trips to a centre and queued up for a Covid vaccinations, ranted about having to go and get an ID card just so he could vote.

A vote was held, under the Tory coalition, to see if we wanted to change our voting system from FPTP - the vote was overwhelmingly "no".

Voter ID shouldn't be a problem. All councils issue free ID cards. To be honest, official ID is needed for all sorts of things, so I just keep my passport renewed, because I don't drive.

I agree that most MPs don't listen much to any of us, although if they think they might lose their seats/power, they often change tack.

But, people hold different opinions about every subject, so I suppose no one can listen to everyone.

The one thing I do dislike, and politicians are very good at this, is the way different groups/ages are steered towards resenting each other.

Newspaper opinion is driven by the editor/owner's political persuasions, but we don't have to listen to what they think.

I don't understand why people voted for Boris Johnson, because it was always obvious what a chancer he is, any more than I understand why people voted to be poorer with Brexit - but I respect the fact that it was decided via the ballot box.

Both Johnson and Brexit have failed miserably, but people voted with how they felt at the time.

I think Covid and its rules was over restrictive, and I do think politicians were getting carried away with more power, but I think people have got wise to that now.

So, no, I don't think we live anywhere near a dictatorship.🙂

Freya5

MaizieD

DiamondLily

I don't know. I just think we all, as individuals, have the choice to decide who we want to listen to, and who we want to vote for.

I've voted since 1973 and we've always had media jump one way or another.

Not a dictatorship.

We don't have the unconditional right to vote that we enjoyed until this year. Excluding people for arbitrary and frankly specious reasons are not the mark of a free democracy. They are the start of a slippery slope.

I agree with you entirely, varian

You can vote just as easily now as you could years ago. Oh yes, we are coming in line with most free societies, in Europe for instance, having to prove you have the rights to do so. Taking personal responsibility to enable this. No charge, you can get free ID, as in other countries. So no we are not a dictatorship. A ridiculous notion. What do you think would have happened to the trespassers on the PMs roof if they were in China, North Korea. They certainly wouldn't get away with a slap onthe wrist. They are dictatorships.

We no longer have an unconditional vote. We now have an unnecessary condition attached to voting which can remove a person's voting right if not complied with.

I don't really care what other countries do. I care about the erosion of rights.

The referendum was the largest exercise in democracy this country has ever had but seven years later we haven’t got what the people voted for because far too many of the elite have refused to accept the result.
Is that the case, or is it that the referendum was based on a premise that was so flawed that it was never going to happen?

Who pulls the strings behind the scenes and gets the newspapers to support one party or another? It certainly isn’t Joe Blow in the street.