Diane Abbott’s take on drownings in Med

MerylStreep

I heard to day that Brussels has passed this law.
It comes down to if your a country that refuses to take back undocumented migrants you won’t get a favourable trade deal.

www.politico.eu/article/pushback-brussels-plan-link-trade-migrant-returns/

The countries have got to get together and work on a plan. Sadly we will not even start until the entitled ones are gone.

Urmstongran

Breaking News from the Guardian just now:

“The Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) has said lifeboats from Dover, Ramsgate, Dungeness and Littlestone were called by HM Coastguard to an incident in the Channel on Thursday morning.”

And?

HousePlantQueen

Urmstongran

Breaking News from the Guardian just now:

“The Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) has said lifeboats from Dover, Ramsgate, Dungeness and Littlestone were called by HM Coastguard to an incident in the Channel on Thursday morning.”

And?

And, thankfully, all who were in the water were saved, I believe.
And their boat was obviously unsafe
And it is high summer but the water could still be cold.

And the RNLI are very brave and many will have left their jobs to save others because that is what they do.

HousePlantQueen

Urmstongran

Breaking News from the Guardian just now:

“The Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) has said lifeboats from Dover, Ramsgate, Dungeness and Littlestone were called by HM Coastguard to an incident in the Channel on Thursday morning.”

And?

And you could have found that out for yourself, surely?

As a British national and a taxpayer you are fully entitled to live here and have first dibs, the ‘oh go on, be kind, let them all in’ brigade don’t do us all any favours if they managed to get their way.

I know I am fully entitled to this Nicenanny3, but that wasn't my point. I haven't done ANYTHING to deserve it, apart from having had the almost incredible good luck as to where I was born. The people who are refugees haven't done anything different and surely being humans mean that we SHOULD 'be kind' to others.

They are flesh and blood as we are, feel pain as we do, experience loss and bereavement as we do. If the UK became involved again in a civil war, or became a malevolent dictatorship or fires or flood destroyed cities so that we had nowhere to live in safety, I am sure that we would do all we could to find our way to a safe place.
Our ivory tower and island status are not as strong as we think. After all, 'no man is an island entire of itself'.

Cloughdancer.. there is a wonderful poem by Thich Nhat Hahn called 'Call me by my true names' which encapsulates what you are saying. you can google it

If the UK became involved again in a civil war, or became a malevolent dictatorship or fires or flood destroyed cities so that we had nowhere to live in safety, I am sure that we would do all we could to find our way to a safe place

If everyone had fled in WW2 then the outcome would have been quite different.

10:09choughdancer

As a British national and a taxpayer you are fully entitled to live here and have first dibs, the ‘oh go on, be kind, let them all in’ brigade don’t do us all any favours if they managed to get their way.

These are not my words 🤔

Coughdancer I too applaud your posts.

To add, were we in the same situation as those fleeing their countries, we would choose to go where we understood the language, and of course due to historic reasons English as a second language is spoken all over the world.
We take fewer than 5 other major european countries as it is. Germany fir instance takes twice as many refugees. ( reported this morning on Today r4.
As fir 'they should stay in the first safe country,' that would mean some southern ( poorer) countries would have to take the va st majority , which they do, while we, being furthest away would not expect to take any. Which for some would suit.
Is that fair? Is that decent? kind? No. It isn't.

Well said silverlining48!

Nicenanny3 I copied those words directly from your post! If you were quoting someone else you could have attributed them to whoever originally posted or said them.

Maremia

choughdancer!! Think you have been voted the best poster on this thread.

Not by me.

choughdancer

Nicenanny3 I copied those words directly from your post! If you were quoting someone else you could have attributed them to whoever originally posted or said them.

Wrong!
It was my comment. Apology to nicenanny3 needed.

pascal30 I agree; it is a wonderful poem!

Nobody has to stay in the first safe country but to then travel through several safe countries, ending up in France and then risking death by drowning is a bizarre thing to do.
Migration Watch says that a lot of these young men ( yes, mainly young men) have often been refused asylum in other countries so make a last ditch attempt to get here.That can be the only reason so many make the Channel crossing.

choughdancer

pascal30 I agree; it is a wonderful poem!

Some heartening posts - thank you all, it gives me hope, that people are not so awful as I sometimes fear.

silverlining48

Coughdancer I too applaud your posts.

To add, were we in the same situation as those fleeing their countries, we would choose to go where we understood the language, and of course due to historic reasons English as a second language is spoken all over the world.
We take fewer than 5 other major european countries as it is. Germany fir instance takes twice as many refugees. ( reported this morning on Today r4.
As fir 'they should stay in the first safe country,' that would mean some southern ( poorer) countries would have to take the va st majority , which they do, while we, being furthest away would not expect to take any. Which for some would suit.
Is that fair? Is that decent? kind? No. It isn't.

We don’t have to ‘take them’ and neither do other countries if they are refused asylum.
We just need to get on and process applications a lot faster.

Whitewavemark2

choughdancer

pascal30 I agree; it is a wonderful poem!

Some heartening posts - thank you all, it gives me hope, that people are not so awful as I sometimes fear.

Another naive emotional post.
A huge amount of the young men making the crossing are economic migrants who have been turned down for asylum by another country.
Anyone remember the plane load of ‘kind’ passengers refusing to let a criminal rapist migrant be taken away? Bet they regretted that afterwards.

On the other hand😄😄😄

Oreo You dont take my point about speaking english, would you if having to flee - just take a moment to imagine that - choose to go somewhere where you didn't speak a word of the language or woukd you prefer somewhere English speaking?

I would be willing to bet, given a choice, anyone would choose somewhere where they would understand and be understood. It makes sense.
Believe me I know how hard it is to settle in a foreign land , its not easy.

I wonder why wedon't liaise with France to do an initial assessment in France where people could have their papers looked at, before they destroy them, and also have photo's and fingerprints taken. I imagine many migrants are wanting to reach the UK because they have family or friends here. If that is the case I think those families or friends should be contacted and if they agree to feed and house the migrants, than their application for asylum and working visas could be processed immediately. This would save the government hotel costs and increase our workforce AND mean that the migrants didn't have to risk their lives..

Perhaps put some blame on the Home Office. Why are they not doing their job and dealt with claims. ? Is it a governmental decree?
The problem' if it is wont go away until that is done.

silverlining48

Perhaps put some blame on the Home Office. Why are they not doing their job and dealt with claims. ? Is it a governmental decree?
The problem' if it is wont go away until that is done.

I agree, there’s plenty can be laid at the door of the HO.
Your other point about speaking some English ( by migrants) and that being the reason they want to come here could well be true of some of them.That doesn’t mean we have to take them, only a really good reason for asylum would be considered.
We can’t continue to take anyone who simply wants to come here until half of Africa and anywhere else has emptied.
Can you imagine what Councils have to do to house so many coming over every single day in good weather.

12:26Oreo

Whitewavemark2

choughdancer

pascal30 I agree; it is a wonderful poem!

Some heartening posts - thank you all, it gives me hope, that people are not so awful as I sometimes fear.

Another naive emotional post.
A huge amount of the young men making the crossing are economic migrants who have been turned down for asylum by another country.
Anyone remember the plane load of ‘kind’ passengers refusing to let a criminal rapist migrant be taken away? Bet they regretted that afterwards.

Yes Oreo I bet they did and the plane full of criminals who Keir Starmer and others stopped and one went on to kill someone, bet their proud of that. All this virtue signalling on here by some posters, perhaps we should have a saint emoji 😇, or perhaps a naive one.

Naivety I think Nicenanny3 and a sense of wanting the world to be wonderful. Also thinking that these thousands of young men are all decent beings who will bring nothing but good.
Backdoor illegal economic migrants who need to have their applications processed as fast as possible.