An election looms, so I think it is time to look at all the success over the 13 years that we have witnessed from the government.

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

Don’t we?

Well I can only speak for myself, but no, I don’t because I accept that we’ve got to help those who are less fortunate than we are. I’ll still be lucky in comparison so I count my blessings, and those of my family.

I havent before.

But it is possible I could this time?
There are so many ways any government wastes money nowadays.
May be time to be more selfish?
I dont know. Not thought about that aspect until now.

For me the Tories committed the most grievous crime against the nation by leaving the EU. I do think that Rishi Sunak is a great improvement on Boris and Liz and way more intelligent than Theresa May or David Cameron.

However for the best national outcome I plump for Labour under Sir Kier Starmer in the hope that he seek to heal the damage done by Brexit though it. will take years for us to rejoin the EU. I n order to keep the extreme right at bay he may look at the electoral system and move towards a PR based sytem.

Not a promising future but we need to escape the corrupt recent past typified by Johnson, Truss, Rees-Mogg. They probably have some followers just as some Americans still beieve in Trump. How did it all go so WRONG?

People wanted their say about leaving the EU. They had their say. The government acted democratically by allowing, and by honouring the result of, the referendum. We still have a lot of people, even on GN, saying they’re pleased about the result despite some of the consequences and despite evidence that misleading comments were made. I voted to remain. I accepted, with some difficulty, that I was not one of the majority.

Germanshepherdsmum

People wanted their say about leaving the EU. They had their say. The government acted democratically by allowing, and by honouring the result of, the referendum. We still have a lot of people, even on GN, saying they’re pleased about the result despite some of the consequences and despite evidence that misleading comments were made. I voted to remain. I accepted, with some difficulty, that I was not one of the majority.

I voted Remain too but I think Cameron, by promising to enact the Referendum result, undermined Parliamentary democracy. Referendums do not have lawful decision-making power in the UK. That rests with Parliament. I accept the decision that Parliament made: that is an obligation of a democratic minority but it does not mean one is constrained not to campaign to rejoin the EU.

I think that abiding by the result of the referendum was the right thing to do, even though the result wasn’t the one I wanted. Imagine the furore if the majority decision, no matter how flawed some of us might think it was, had been ignored.

Once the Electoral Commission declared that the result should be nil and void, then Democracy was out of the windoy- especially with such a tiny minority.

Germanshepherdsmum

I think that abiding by the result of the referendum was the right thing to do, even though the result wasn’t the one I wanted. Imagine the furore if the majority decision, no matter how flawed some of us might think it was, had been ignored.

I'm not sure how it could have been "ignored". Parliament had the say on how it was interpreted.

It was advisory (sometimes called a plebiscite elsewhere). Nothing was predetermined, new legislation had not been put in place on which we were voting. No minimum percentage of voters was required nor was a super majority.

The issue of competing legitimacies was totally apparent before the vote.

No, it was right it was abided by.

We had a vote in the 1970's (?), as to whether we wished to remain in the then Common Market.

The majority said yes, so we stayed in.

It may have been a mistake to vote "Leave", and it wasn't helped by Johnson and co not having a clue what to do with it all, but we've got to try and make the best of it.

Closer friendship and easier trading with the EU might be good though.

The whole thing about "competing legitimacies" is that there are arguments for and against any outcome DiamondLily. It shows the poorest of management skills, which have noticeably continued, if not worsened.

The biggest issue with a plebiscite is that although there may be a sense of political pressure there is no legal requirement to follow the outcome.

In reply to various posters.

I do wonder where people's logic has gone!

Of course it's possible to generalise. What you are complaining about is that the generalisation isn't exactly you. But that's because it is a generalisation.

The referendum was supposed to be “advisory”.
I think that has been forgotten. Although I think it is looked at again in 2025. Might be wrong on the date.

Some people enjoy what would have once have been the "long read" in the "better" newspapers or news magazines. This has now been largely replaced or reproduced by the podcast or YouTube video replicating the article.

This is one from the Financial Times that you may find interesting as it covers the biggest act of this government.

My opinion of the FT is that it doesn't set out to report either from the left or the right. It sets out to report economics. It does seem to me to be right leaning because many of the economists are of the right but I feel still think it gives a reasoned and justifiable view.

I would suggest that commenting on it without watching it is probably not going to get us very far, but I do hope some of you enjoy it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2lWmgEK1Y

Fascinating, thanks DAR. Sadly re-affirming as well.

Germanshepherdsmum

I think that abiding by the result of the referendum was the right thing to do, even though the result wasn’t the one I wanted. Imagine the furore if the majority decision, no matter how flawed some of us might think it was, had been ignored.

I accept, as I said, that the minority are obligated in our democracy to accept the majority decisions in Parliament but Cameron undermined the Commons and Lords by saying the government would do whatever the Referendum outcome was. Of course, Farage and his followers would have been noisy if Parliament had voted simply to note an advisory Referendum result but short of fomenting an unlawful insurrection they would have been ineffective. If Cameron had thought more carefully about it he could have promoted a short Bill setting the bar at 66%.

If Cameron had thought more carefully about it he could have promoted a short Bill setting the bar at 66%.

When the referendum bill was debated the SNP proposed an amendment to ensure that a supermajority was required for a Leave result to be implemented. Naturally the tories wouldn't accept that amendment and anyway, they were sure it wasn't necessary because Remain would win.

The rest is history...

MaizieD

^If Cameron had thought more carefully about it he could have promoted a short Bill setting the bar at 66%.^

When the referendum bill was debated the SNP proposed an amendment to ensure that a supermajority was required for a Leave result to be implemented. Naturally the tories wouldn't accept that amendment and anyway, they were sure it wasn't necessary because Remain would win.

The rest is history...

Tragic history indeed, but please, let's not call it 'Democracy' - it was nothing of the sort.

Stop Starmer

twitter.com/KernowDamo/status/1690685712306257920?s=20

Stop Starmer
@starmer_stop

The campaign to stop the most untrustworthy politician this country has seen.
stopstarmer.co.uk

So should we vote Tory, Grany?

It depends if you trust GR News sources to be non partisan Callistemon.

Callistemon21

So should we vote Tory, Grany?

I don't trust any, Casdon!

But what's the alternative to Labour?
Voting Lib Dem gets us nowhere here, although the candidate was very good and I did.

Casdon

It depends if you trust GR News sources to be non partisan Callistemon.

As I can't even quote the right post, can I be trusted to put my X in the right place?
😁

Grany

Stop Starmer

twitter.com/KernowDamo/status/1690685712306257920?s=20

Stop Starmer
@starmer_stop

The campaign to stop the most untrustworthy politician this country has seen.
stopstarmer.co.uk

Oh, don't be daft. The most untrustworthy politician this country has ever seen is Johnson. By a very long chalk.

I know what you mean. Tactical voting. Maybe that’s the answer for Grany too if she can’t bring herself to vote Tory. Maybe Plaid, as I think she said she’s in North Wales.

I don't think our Plaid candidate looked old enough to vote!
He must have been 18, I suppose.

We didn’t even have a Plaid candidate at all here, but we did have Monster Raving Loony and the Christian Party, Proclaiming Christ's Lordship. They didn’t do well.