An election looms, so I think it is time to look at all the success over the 13 years that we have witnessed from the government.

No idea what you are trying to say Grantanow, but do you think it is okay for someone to attribute what they want to attack, to you?

There is no way Whiewave knows what I think - as she showed. I had explained I have no intention of presenting my thoughts on a plate for her to dissect. That is not an argument, it's just playground nastiness.

I have no problem with people presenting an argument against views I have published. But to make views up and then attack them seems both odd and extreme.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Only in 1984 - War is Peace! Failure is Achievement!

There was a post on here yesterday, directed at me, that I didn't read past the first line, as it was so clearly dripping venom.

I have now read it. It ended "If I’m barking up the wrong tree perhaps you can explain where am going wrong".

This came after I had made it clear I was not prepared to be anyone's target or focus for attack. How do you tell someone, who thinks they can portray lies as truth, what is wrong with such poison?

Quite foxgloves.

Anyone with half a brain who has experienced the chaos of UK politics in recent years must be able to answer that question.

I have not read through the whole thread but my initial reaction to the thread title was
"That won't take long then, will it?"

I would love to see more investment in railways and certainly support getting freight off the roads. But HS2 was sold to us as a high speed line (the clue was in the name) but now we’re told it’s not about speed. And it now seems it will be a line from somewhere outside London to somewhere outside Birmingham, so from nowhere in particular to another nowhere in particular, and what’s the point of that? Any savings in journey time would be immediately cancelled out, in fact journey times would be increased by travel to city centres at the end of the line.

The cynic in me thinks it was only ever about contracts and backhanders and politicians making themselves and their mates richer still. But that could never be allowed to happen could it

gg13 we used it when holidaying in Suffolk this year.

I reckon it is one of the worst in England.

Dinahmo

Living during the Beeching era and seeing the results of that I understand completely the need to upgrade the rail network. But HS2 was never the way to do that.

I used to live in Suffolk where the freight traffic from Felixstowe regularly brought traffic on the A12 and A14 to a standstill. The population would have been delighted had freight traffic been removed from the roads.

However, whenever anyone was trotted out to talk about the benefits of HS2 the reduction in journey time was usually the first thing mentioned.

Since I now live in France I am well aware of the benefits of travel by rail and prefer to do that rather than fly.

The A12 is still at a standstill more than it’s moving.

It is my most detested road, which unfortunately I have to use once every couple of weeks.

Living during the Beeching era and seeing the results of that I understand completely the need to upgrade the rail network. But HS2 was never the way to do that.

I used to live in Suffolk where the freight traffic from Felixstowe regularly brought traffic on the A12 and A14 to a standstill. The population would have been delighted had freight traffic been removed from the roads.

However, whenever anyone was trotted out to talk about the benefits of HS2 the reduction in journey time was usually the first thing mentioned.

Since I now live in France I am well aware of the benefits of travel by rail and prefer to do that rather than fly.

Dinahmo

Katie59

“2 out of every three people want greater government spending on public services, which would of course result in economic growth.”

The same could be said about HS2 but that’s highly questionable, if we embark on a lot of public service spending we're going to need a much larger labour force than else have now.

I doubt very much that many people believed that HS2 would be of any economic value apart from those politicians such as George Osborne who supported the Northern Powerhouse.

High speed rail arrived in Britain with the Channel tunnel link in 2003. In 2009 the D o T under Labour, proposed to assess the case for a second high speed line. The Conservative/Lib Dem coalition proposed a public consultation and the rest is history. So far the original budget has tripled.

All this so that business people can arrive in Birmingham with 1/2 hour cut from the present journey time.

No. It isn’t about making journeys faster. Our current rail system is archaic and it would be impossible to upgrade it without massive disruption for years. We need to get lorries off the roads and we need to encourage more people to travel by rail. Just travel round Europe by rail and then compare it to this country when you arrive back. Ok, I’m biased because I come from a railway family but, believe me we don’t support it because we want to trash the environment and cripple the economy.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

I look at the party manifesto’s, but more importantly to me has always been the local candidate.

Firstly are they local or parachuted in, if they are standing for reelection I would look at what they have done for the local area.

This is why I am politically homeless and shall be voting for a local independent candidate.

A good constituency MP/candidate is priceless, regardless of their colour.

You may do so but many people don't. When Johnson became PM there were several vox pops on tv with people saying words to the effect of " Good old Boris - he's one of us - he'll see us right"

According to some friends who have manned polling stations for 40 plus years, at the time of the referendum many people went to vote who had never done so previously. They asked questions such as "how do I know that my vote will be counted" and "how do I know that you won't change the voting slip after I've left" They of course were supporting Farage.

Katie59

“2 out of every three people want greater government spending on public services, which would of course result in economic growth.”

The same could be said about HS2 but that’s highly questionable, if we embark on a lot of public service spending we're going to need a much larger labour force than else have now.

I doubt very much that many people believed that HS2 would be of any economic value apart from those politicians such as George Osborne who supported the Northern Powerhouse.

High speed rail arrived in Britain with the Channel tunnel link in 2003. In 2009 the D o T under Labour, proposed to assess the case for a second high speed line. The Conservative/Lib Dem coalition proposed a public consultation and the rest is history. So far the original budget has tripled.

All this so that business people can arrive in Birmingham with 1/2 hour cut from the present journey time.

MaizieD

I look at the party manifesto’s, but more importantly to me has always been the local candidate.

Firstly are they local or parachuted in, if they are standing for reelection I would look at what they have done for the local area.

This is why I am politically homeless and shall be voting for a local independent candidate.

A good constituency MP/candidate is priceless, regardless of their colour.

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

Not sure that U.K. voters elect TV personalities DaisyAnneRetrns

But, any prospective MP in the 21st century must utilise all forms of media to get their own political points of view and their parties manifesto known to the widest audience possible.

I think Johnson’s appearance on HIGNFY is what propelled him into political success. Even I was charmed by him back then (albeit not in the way that I’m charmed by Rory Stewart these days).

Thank you MayBee. Exactly that.

Do you really think that the U.K. electorate voted for their Conservative constituency MP (as you know we do not vote for the PM other than those in the leader of the parties constituency) on Boris Johnson’s appearance on HIGNFY?

I think the party won the last election on their slogan of get Brexit done Which worked after the stalemate in the H of P during Theresa May’s tenure.

Oh, GG13

I think we do really know that people vote for a party leader rather than just a constituency MP. After all, when one votes for an MP they do represent a discrete party, and the leader of that party will become PM. And when the media are talking p one party leader and monstering the other people do take note.

How many LP activists on Gnet have said over the past 7 years that on the doorstep people said they would not vote for Corbyn?

DaisyAnneReturns

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

Not sure that U.K. voters elect TV personalities DaisyAnneRetrns

But, any prospective MP in the 21st century must utilise all forms of media to get their own political points of view and their parties manifesto known to the widest audience possible.

I think Johnson’s appearance on HIGNFY is what propelled him into political success. Even I was charmed by him back then (albeit not in the way that I’m charmed by Rory Stewart these days).

Thank you MayBee. Exactly that.

Do you really think that the U.K. electorate voted for their Conservative constituency MP (as you know we do not vote for the PM other than those in the leader of the parties constituency) on Boris Johnson’s appearance on HIGNFY?

I think the party won the last election on their slogan of get Brexit done Which worked after the stalemate in the H of P during Theresa May’s tenure.

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

Not sure that U.K. voters elect TV personalities DaisyAnneRetrns

But, any prospective MP in the 21st century must utilise all forms of media to get their own political points of view and their parties manifesto known to the widest audience possible.

I think Johnson’s appearance on HIGNFY is what propelled him into political success. Even I was charmed by him back then (albeit not in the way that I’m charmed by Rory Stewart these days).

Thank you MayBee. Exactly that.

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

Not sure that U.K. voters elect TV personalities DaisyAnneRetrns

But, any prospective MP in the 21st century must utilise all forms of media to get their own political points of view and their parties manifesto known to the widest audience possible.

I think Johnson’s appearance on HIGNFY is what propelled him into political success. Even I was charmed by him back then (albeit not in the way that I’m charmed by Rory Stewart these days).

My niece is one of many who watched him on HIGNIFY and thought that he was brilliant! I'm not sure what she thinks now.

GrannyGravy13

Not sure that U.K. voters elect TV personalities DaisyAnneRetrns

But, any prospective MP in the 21st century must utilise all forms of media to get their own political points of view and their parties manifesto known to the widest audience possible.

I think Johnson’s appearance on HIGNFY is what propelled him into political success. Even I was charmed by him back then (albeit not in the way that I’m charmed by Rory Stewart these days).

Not sure that U.K. voters elect TV personalities DaisyAnneRetrns

But, any prospective MP in the 21st century must utilise all forms of media to get their own political points of view and their parties manifesto known to the widest audience possible.

From outside the two larger parties, both of which are coalitions, I see the Tories scrapping behind closed doors and winning more often and Labour scrapping with the doors open and winning less often.

Winning more often is good. Being open with your intentions is also good. In most countries with voting systems like ours this seems to be standard.

Doesn't that mean the problem is with the voters who, these days, seem, in large numbers, to only want to vote for TV personalities. Only Ukraine seems to have come out well from that view of politics.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Whitewavemark2

MayBee70

Why are we all arguing when most of us want the same thing? Maybe that’s why the Conservatives win elections. Because they just concentrate on winning them, not the minutae of what their party stands for or why certain party members are chosen to represent the party and some aren’t.

You are right. I stand corrected 😄😄

maybe I’ve been pondering what you said, and I think you are so right in that for the Tories, winning is all that matters. With regard to labour and their supporters I think, yes winning is more important than it has ever been, but the main problem with a Labour supporter is the angst they seem to go through, about what is right, fair and honest. So we tend to get tied up in knots about doing the right thing and perhaps lose what is important which is getting rid of the Tories.

I think you are right Whitewavemark2 Conservatives have got a win at any cost gene

It’s no secret that I have been a lifelong Conservative, now politically homeless.

I wouldn’t like to see any party have a huge majority again, if it’s close the parties might work together and negotiate as opposed to being constantly confrontational.

Labour is more “we must win at any cost, provided we can take everyone with us and we all agree on minutia” otherwise we need to take it to conference and thrash it out there, washing our dirty linen in public, an unedifying spectacle that is so useful to the right wing media.

Whitewavemark2

Whitewavemark2

MayBee70

Why are we all arguing when most of us want the same thing? Maybe that’s why the Conservatives win elections. Because they just concentrate on winning them, not the minutae of what their party stands for or why certain party members are chosen to represent the party and some aren’t.

You are right. I stand corrected 😄😄

maybe I’ve been pondering what you said, and I think you are so right in that for the Tories, winning is all that matters. With regard to labour and their supporters I think, yes winning is more important than it has ever been, but the main problem with a Labour supporter is the angst they seem to go through, about what is right, fair and honest. So we tend to get tied up in knots about doing the right thing and perhaps lose what is important which is getting rid of the Tories.

I think you are right Whitewavemark2 Conservatives have got a win at any cost gene

It’s no secret that I have been a lifelong Conservative, now politically homeless.

I wouldn’t like to see any party have a huge majority again, if it’s close the parties might work together and negotiate as opposed to being constantly confrontational.

Whitewavemark2

MayBee70

Why are we all arguing when most of us want the same thing? Maybe that’s why the Conservatives win elections. Because they just concentrate on winning them, not the minutae of what their party stands for or why certain party members are chosen to represent the party and some aren’t.

You are right. I stand corrected 😄😄

maybe I’ve been pondering what you said, and I think you are so right in that for the Tories, winning is all that matters. With regard to labour and their supporters I think, yes winning is more important than it has ever been, but the main problem with a Labour supporter is the angst they seem to go through, about what is right, fair and honest. So we tend to get tied up in knots about doing the right thing and perhaps lose what is important which is getting rid of the Tories.

MayBee70

Why are we all arguing when most of us want the same thing? Maybe that’s why the Conservatives win elections. Because they just concentrate on winning them, not the minutae of what their party stands for or why certain party members are chosen to represent the party and some aren’t.

I don't think you are arguing MayBee are you? Do we really all want the same thing, do we? If so why the attacks?