Lucy Letby found guilty.

MadeinYorkshire - yes the threshold for DLA can be impossible to reach. Sometimes the CBA or a charity supporting parents whose children have complex needs can help tweek the application form - sorry if your stepd has tried all thistle

Thirteen babies killed or injured within a year when normally it is one or two, if that many. No child has died since Letby left the unit. These are statistics and the managers should have been aware of them and investigating them; instead they overruled doctors on the floor to save one individual, with catastrophic consequences.

I dont understand why she couldnt have been suspended. While investigations took place.
That is what happens in other organisations, surely?
Or if the first time they were not sure and didnt call police, when she went back again, and more babies very sadly died?

She was eventually removed from the neonatal unit in July 2016. Hospital executives called the police almost a year later, and she was arrested in July 2018. The Guardian has contacted the executives for comment.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2023/aug/18/lucy-letby-timeline-attacks-babies-when-alarm-raised

all the deaths were between 2015 to 2016 when investigations started

One thing I don't understand is why Letby's parents were involved in a meeting with the chief executive. Why were they present at what was a work-related issue? How many of us on here would be involved in a meeting concerning our adult children's work? That just seems bizarre to me.

Usually, you’d expect a staff member in Letby’s position to be supported by her Union rep. How many adults would ask for their father to be their support in work meetings. Her parents still believe her to be innocent.

On the subject of convicted prisoners refusing to attend sentencing/victim statement hearings. Maybe these can be zoomed or somehow played into their cells

I suppose I am in a minority in thinking that I would not like the law to be changed to force criminals to be in court for sentencing, etc.

I just cannot imagine how this could be enforced. Are they to be taken into court, screaming and struggling in chains, etc? What happens if they refuse to open their eyes once there? are their eye lids to be forced open. And, if they go for passive non-resistance, will they be permitted to lie on the floor of the dock or would they be held up between two or three warders and even then can keep their heads hanging down and eyes tightly closed. Indeed, in this way could make it even more about them than by just not being there.

Yes, I do realise that it is their last piece of control. But, what difference does it make? They will know that sentence and have very many years, probably the rest of their lives to understand what it means.

Lucy Letby will not even be able to mix amongst the other prisoners as she will be in danger of being attacked by them.

Franbern, I posted something similar earlier. I agree with your comments about the difficulties in enforcing their attendance. I’ve never forgotten one individual who put their fingers in ears and sang la la la till being removed for contempt.

I do understand the parents feeling offenders should hear the sentencing remarks and victim statements. I don’t know how that can be safely enforced. The potential for awful drama at a time of such high emotion is there and potentially could compound existing trauma for victims

Thank you for the link lemsip. It’s extremely illuminating. I find it difficult to believe anyone thinks we don’t have enough information concerning the hospital managers involved in this case. Of course the inquiry will take months and it’s possible the managers will not be compelled to take part. I hope this is not the case.

lemsip

She was eventually removed from the neonatal unit in July 2016. Hospital executives called the police almost a year later, and she was arrested in July 2018. The Guardian has contacted the executives for comment.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2023/aug/18/lucy-letby-timeline-attacks-babies-when-alarm-raised

all the deaths were between 2015 to 2016 when investigations started

I havent read as much as other people probably, about the case.
That link reads even worse than I thought.

Personally, I do think people in general should take quite a lot more notice of "coincidences".

The amount of deaths was so very out of the ordinary.
And same nurse on duty each time.

It was suggested on TV this morning that if she refuses to leave her cell for sentencing then it should be piped into her cell so that she has to hear everything that is said about her and her crimes. Sounds a reasonable idea to me.

I would still prefer her to be dragged to the dock but I son’t think that’s going to happen.

‘NHS manager who ‘ignored serious concerns’ about Lucy Letby suspended’

‘Alison Kelly accused in court of failing to act on several warnings about nurse who murdered seven babies at Countess of Chester Hospital’

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/20/nhs-manager-accused-ignoring-lucy-letby-warnings-suspended/

‘A senior consultant paediatrician who gave evidence at the serial killer’s trial has accused executives at the Cheshire hospital where she worked of “gross negligence”…

“I shall write to Cheshire police and ask them, from what I have heard following the end of the trial, that I believe that we should now investigate a number of managerial people in relation to issues of corporate manslaughter,” he told the Observer.’

Franbern, your sympathy is misplaced.
I think about the babies screaming when they were injected.
This isn't about the accused, whose actions mean she has surrendered the right to personal preferences, it is about the victims and what they are entitled to.

If the accused chooses to lie on the floor he/she can be hauled to their feet; hands can be handcuffed behind so they cannot cover their ears; they may shut their eyes but they are still listening to the victims' statements.

I suspect Letby does not want to attend because she is refusing to accept the guilty verdict and this will be the beginning of a long string of very expensive appeals.

I understand the parents' disbelief at the verdict, having been given an apology in person by the Management for her suspension. For this appalling misjudgement alone they should stand trial.

I lost my sympathy for her parents when I read that her father, who attended with her when she met the managers to claim bullying in her workplace (it defies the imagination doesn’t it?) and her father threatened the managers that he would report the doctors to the GMC if they didn’t stop their complaints about his daughter.
All my feelings for them flew out of the window then.
My daughter is a doctor.

For those saying how can they possible make her come to the courtroom, well it’s never been a problem up till recently has it? How have they ever made prisoners come in before, walked them in in handcuffs I ve only heard of this recently You may as well say how can they possibly make an offender go to the police station if they don’t want to, well in handcuffs and frog marched in ?
I really don’t understand how the balance of power can be so changed

I can’t help thinking if there have been other incidences with her previously that haven’t been picked up on have other babies died on her watch before
What a difficult situation all round I can only believe she had some personality defect surely no sane person could do what she has done
madeinyorkshire that is so sad for you and the daughter you lost to this horrendous illness 💐

MadeinYorkshire I so understand and send you a hug

MadeinYorkshire

From today’s Telegraph editorial:

“After a series of deaths of babies at Bristol Royal Infirmary, an inquiry in 1998 recommended regulatory oversight of managers, but this seems never to have been implemented. A later review proposed that directors in the NHS should be open to disbarment for serious misconduct.

At the very least, those in senior positions should have their generous pensions removed, as is now being suggested.

Until managers are held accountable in the NHS, all the talk of “learning lessons” will be empty rhetoric.”

I suppose if Letby were forced into the courtroom she would immediately claim bullying and mount another claim. I only realised recently that that was what her complaint was about; I understood it was Ian Harvey who told his replacement that 'she was to pursue the seven doctors by reporting them to the General Medical Council.' This was just before he conveniently retired and vanished into France a month after Letby was arrested.

It is like Police policing themselves.
NHS Managers managing themselves.

to Urmstongran

Urmstongran

From today’s Telegraph editorial:

“After a series of deaths of babies at Bristol Royal Infirmary, an inquiry in 1998 recommended regulatory oversight of managers, but this seems never to have been implemented. A later review proposed that directors in the NHS should be open to disbarment for serious misconduct.

At the very least, those in senior positions should have their generous pensions removed, as is now being suggested.

Until managers are held accountable in the NHS, all the talk of “learning lessons” will be empty rhetoric.”

I remember that and it was the high rate of baby deaths and injuries after they had had cardiac surgery which caused alarm bells to ring. The tragedies continued as some babies were left damaged and some bereaved parents took their own lives.

A friend's baby needed heart surgery soon after birth and it was at that time; thankfully he went to Cardiff UH and is now a healthy, strapping young man.

Lessons never are learned, are they.

Casdon

Luckygirl3

I can understand management wanting to be seen to be fair, but it seems logical that if the accusation/concern involves the deliberate killing of patients then all other considerations should go out of the window and the accused should be suspended. Management are worried that they might have to pay compensation. This should not be the prime consideration.

The consultants who raised the concerns must be incandescent with anger.

It doesn’t work like that Luckygirl, there’s a pooled arrangement for compensation in the NHS, it doesn’t come from the coffers of individual NHS organisations.
Here’s the account from the BBC about the involvement of clinical managers in the cases.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66120934
As I mentioned before, cases like this are always handled through the clinical management hierarchy.

In this link, this bit stands out for me

When she was finally moved, Letby was assigned to the risk and patient safety office, where she had access to sensitive documents from the neonatal unit and was in close proximity to senior managers whose job it was to investigate her

Not asking the question to Casdon, but to anyone.

Is it possible that someone else was involved too?
Whose decision was it to move her there, of all places?

How can friends and family still think she is innocent when they have seen what she had written.

Shows the ramblings of a very mentally disturbed person who should have been noted and stopped after the first baby died on her watch the exwife not gone on to kill dozens more
Her friends have all apparently stood by her saying it’s impossible for her to have done this she certainly fooled all of them with her duel personality