Lucy Letby found guilty.

Iam64

Slghtly off topic but - my experience in local authority was raising concerns about a colleague often resulted in the person expressing concern being seen as the problem
Curious

I dont think it is curious nowadays.
I would say it is normal, sadly.

There seem to be multiple people in positions higher up institutions acting like that now, it seems to me.

Casdon

maddyone

But they had no evidence Casdon. It was merely hearsay whilst the doctors did have some circumstantial evidence. It fits the picture my daughter painted of the GMC being used by managers to close down any discussion at all.

The results of the initial investigation would have been shared I’m sure maddyone. It wasn’t that there was no evidence, it was that the evidence they had gathered didn’t identify that Letby was responsible - two different things. I’m not defending the medical director, I’m saying that GMC must have believed the evidence they did receive. Just to clarify, the GMC is a profession specific organisation, and it must be a challenge for them when doctors disagree with other doctors, I can’t say if they favour medical managers above other consultants but you’d expect it would be on a case by case basis. In this case they also got it wrong.

But it couldnt identify here for usre, could it? Nor could police. It is trials that do that.
And even then, some wont believe[yes I know there are miscarriages of justice].

GMC dont necessarily have to "must have believed" either. There are a few people everywhere who do rogue, or whatever word you want to put there, behaviour.

As someone who worked in the Civil Service for almost 40 years, I know how difficult it is to whistle blow/complain about someone. I was moved from a department where I had been for 30 years to another department in the same building. I was treated appalling there.
I am very much a mouse like, head down and get on with it person. I wasn't remotely ambitious. I just wanted to feed my family. A certain person's behaviour towards me was nothing short of shocking. When I plucked up courage to make a complaint I was told 'Well it was OK before you came along'. That was that. I know this is totally different and very minor but a lot of people's concerns get dismissed/not believed.

Whistleblowers are often scapegoated

I accused a doctor I worked for for bullying. He didn’t just bully me: he bullied everybody. And he was a rubbish doctor. Another one of the doctors backed me up. I ended up getting a handshake. That was it. A handshake.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2023/aug/18/lucy-letby-timeline-attacks-babies-when-alarm-raised
The nurse, 33, attacked the newborns between June 2015 and June 2016 at the neonatal unit where she worked.

if you click on above you will see a timeline and details of each death and cause.. she didn't allow her friends to attend her trial.

she didn't allow her friends to attend her trial

How did/could she prevent this?

I believe she asked them not to attend.

I think the complicating factor in this case as far as the GMC was concerned though maddyone is that the manager in question was also a doctor, he was the medical director, so would also have been involved. Presumably what happened is that they believed the evidence he presented?
Ian Harvey, the Medical Director referred to, has told the DT that he could not recall any paediatricians at C of C contacting him with concerns about neonatal deaths in February 1916 as they claimed.
"It is surprising, given the level of concern that some of the paediatricians professed having had at that time, that there was no follow-up to chase a response, either with my secretary, or directly with me" said Mr. Harvey.
He claimed to have had an open-door policy but that at "no time prior to May 2016 did a consultant come to my office to express or discuss their concerns."
Dr.Breary rejected this version of events ; he requested a meeting in February but Harvey did not respond for 3 months, and also said he had emails referring to Mr. Harvey's reply from early March, and added "we did chase repeatedly."

Harvey and his wife left their home in France the morning before Letby was given a whole life sentence, and has reportedly told colleagues 'any inquiry into these killings would have to find me first.'
Never mind the doctors 'not pursuing it'; this Medical Director should have been alert to this spike in deaths and demanding answers, as part of his highly paid job.
This is why a judicial review is needed, this man is not going to admit to anything at an independent enquiry with his £1.8 million pension at stake.

Thanks for the update eazybee. I’m inclined to believe Dr Breary who has been interviewed on tv, radio, by news print journalists. He always sounds honest, consistent and clear about the chronology

So am I Iam.
And the testimony of Dr Ravi Jayaram too.

Yes, they’re a group of impressive clinicians, I’m sure they inspired hope and confidence in parents

Thanks eazybee
It sounds as if he's obfuscating.

Harvey and his wife left their home in France the morning before Letby was given a whole life sentence, and has reportedly told colleagues 'any inquiry into these killings would have to find me first.'

Most witnesses who give evidence at statutory public inquiries are invited to do so by consent

However, if a witness refuses to participate, the chair can direct them to attend and, if they still fail to appear, apply to the High Court for a summons. If the witness resists after that, they can be arrested

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/23/medical-director-letby-hospital-ian-harvey-doctors-concerns/

Foxygloves

I think it is appalling that Letby, or any criminal found guilty, can somehow duck out of appearing in court for the verdict or sentencing.
I think they should face up to what they have done and face up to the sentence being imposed.

Agreed. A change is being made to this law and I hope it isn’t going to get stalled and held up unnecessarily in Parliament.

I met up with an old friend today and her 3 year old triplet grandkids are coming to stay. They were actually born in the same hospital in Chester and all the news about Letby has really upset her.

I feel really sorry for all the staff at the hospital. Finding out that one of your colleagues has done such terrible things must be dreadful. I can't imagine what they have been going through and hope they have a supportive network around them all.

I agree, WildSwan.

It’s been interesting reading everyone’s comments. You get some wise thoughts on Gransnet.

JenniferEccles

I am horrified that the paediatricians, all seven of them, agreed to sign the letter (presumably written by a manager) apologising to Letby.

What cowards. They all strongly suspected her involvement in the babies deaths, as she was the only member of staff on duty at the time of each one yet they STILL signed that grovelling letter.

It makes me wonder just how widespread this closing ranks/covering up is in the NHS.

It’s constant!

Sussexborn

Foxygloves

I think it is appalling that Letby, or any criminal found guilty, can somehow duck out of appearing in court for the verdict or sentencing.
I think they should face up to what they have done and face up to the sentence being imposed.

Agreed. A change is being made to this law and I hope it isn’t going to get stalled and held up unnecessarily in Parliament.

This has only become a point of contention in the last few years, but it’s been possible for criminals to avoid attending court for sentencing for a long time. Levi Bellfield, who murdered Milly Dowler and others refused when he was sentenced in 2012 for example.

Kamiso

JenniferEccles

I am horrified that the paediatricians, all seven of them, agreed to sign the letter (presumably written by a manager) apologising to Letby.

What cowards. They all strongly suspected her involvement in the babies deaths, as she was the only member of staff on duty at the time of each one yet they STILL signed that grovelling letter.

It makes me wonder just how widespread this closing ranks/covering up is in the NHS.

It’s constant!

Threatened with being struck off and their careers ending in ignominy? Leaving the medical profession?

Or continuing to work to save the lives of babies and maintaining an alert about a suspected colleague.

🤔 what would I choose?

Kamiso

JenniferEccles

I am horrified that the paediatricians, all seven of them, agreed to sign the letter (presumably written by a manager) apologising to Letby.

What cowards. They all strongly suspected her involvement in the babies deaths, as she was the only member of staff on duty at the time of each one yet they STILL signed that grovelling letter.

It makes me wonder just how widespread this closing ranks/covering up is in the NHS.

It’s constant!

They were not cowards. The wording of the apology is very careful

Whistleblowers generally are treated appallingly, it really shouldnt be underestimated the pressure they are under. The threat of job loss, disgrace, etc.

I was a whistle blower but it didn't faze me as I knew I was telling the truth. I was accused of being forgetful and not recalling things properly. I was looked down on by those in high places but I stood my ground. Eventually the person concerned was removed because those in charge had egg on their faces.

Good on you, skydancer. That would have taken a lot of courage. We have bad events coming to light now after many years because those who were suspicious or complained were ignored at the time ( particularly as regards abuse of children in schools etc by teachers)