Lucy Letby found guilty.

Unsure what insane actually means
I can see she coukdnt be of rational mind - after being excused from the grievance a ration person would have sense to know you 'got away with it' and need to keep straight from now on, surely? But she continued !
I've seen two hardworking tgem overworked people start to 'loose it' feel not coping and acting out of character. Needing anti depressants. I believe this happened I've seen daughter in law after her 12 hr gruelling hospital shifts and you can't speak to her till she's showered and chilled!!!! Her colleagues think or thought Letbe innocent u sure if do now the Stepping Hill nurse was wrongly accused ! But Letby was I feel guilty. The insulin overdoses especially! She wasn't of sound mind does this constitute insanity? She put handover sheets under bed🤔😳??? Wrote notes but didn't shred any of it. She had lost her mind she had issues I feel of wishing to have babies herself ! I think she became a robot of sorts without normal emotions then moments of lucid seeing the truth of what she had done.. saying I am evil etc
I don't think she was born evil or started nursing evil i think as said the pressures imposed stress of holding down a post and to some extent her authority and position allowing control took her over the edge. No doubt she will one day have healed enough to then face massive guilt issues that is if she hadn't taken her own life first
She has effectively ruined so many lives I wonder if her friends and parents accept her guilt now

I agree with Germansheperdsmum and Blondiescot if they were dragged into court it would become all about them, when it should be about the harm they have done to others. Why give them the chance to cause any more hurt.

MerylStreep

It’s obvious that some on here didn’t listen to one of the prosecutors explaining how painstaking it was to build the case because of lack of scientific evidence.
She explained how one crucial piece of evidence ( a phone call by a mother) helped to get the conviction.

Exactly what I said - sometimes it just takes that one piece of evidence for the whole case to fall into place.

Germanshepherdsmum

I agree Blondiescot.

I would not wish to see the law changed so as to compel prisoners to attend sentencing hearings. They may, before being dragged out again for contempt, say unspeakable things to the victims and their families, or laugh in their faces. They have little or nothing to lose. It would compound the suffering of the victims and their families.

Hear, hear.

I wonder if that is one of the reasons why they are not forced to attend the sentencing?

I have read of instances where the accused (and subsequently, charged) have grinned, smirked and yawned in an effort to further intimidate and mock the families of those they've already harmed (usually males accused of ABH or GBH) - or have given the 'thumbs-up' sign to members of their family as they're led away, especially if the sentence is lighter than they possibly expected.

When the sentence is given, individuals such as Letby should not be given any opportunity to inflict further pain. Though I can understand why the families of the murdered babies might have wanted to see this final moment.

It's like building blocks putting all the jigsaw pieces in place, she was there every time, babies don't get high insulin etc
It can never be pardoned but I do have empathy for people who go off sick from work pressures my son in law did, he leaned over backwards as had good nature to meet unreasonable targets abd keep his position and jump through hoops and do back to back shifts to keep roof overhead, he ended up very poorly & coukdnt work for six months it's a serious matter in some workplaces today, and it continues, just 20 mins break in 6 hrs I got at M&S after serving endless sales queues and returns I only kept going as knew it was for a few weeks - gone are days of hour lunches and morning & aft tea break! Then traffic queues to get home to turn around and do it all again the next days and be coerced into working days off

Maybe the families have a right of sorts to dictate if they are there or not for sentencing If it helps in a tiny way ? But it cant really 'help' surely ? But they are the victims in this - It does seem that the accused has the call
As happened today !!! Those poor parents😔 I cant bear of a baby suffering inflicted pain

Polly7

I think it's almost impossible for a rational person to understand the mind of someone like Letby. That's why we use words like "insane" and "evil" - because we can't comprehend how she could do what she did.

We make a stab at interpreting her actions and finding the cause, with the limited knowledge of psychology of the average layman.

Personally, I don' even attempt to learn why, because I cannot fathom any type of personality disorder that would lead someone to become a serial killer of new born infants.

Can any of us 'understand' the minds of those like Myra Hindley, Ian Brady, Lucy Letby?

I posted earlier my concerns about the problems involved in ‘making’ offenders be present for the Judge’s remarks and family impact statements. I agree with comments from Blondiescott and germanshepherdsmum on this issue.

I’ve just heard a radio 4 interview with Bryn Hughes, the father of Nicola Hughes, one of two GMP officers murdered by a well known offender. Mr Hughes is a retired prison officer. He said on occasion he’d been involved in forcing an offender to appear in the dock, at the Judge’s request. He talked about the distress caused to victims, the families of murder victims, by the contemptuous behaviour shown. Offenders hurling verbal abuse etc with the result the Judge ordered them removed from Court
This is exactly the scenes I feared and that led me to conclude physically forcing offenders into court is fraught with potential abuse of families

Germanshepherdsmum

I agree Blondiescot.

I would not wish to see the law changed so as to compel prisoners to attend sentencing hearings. They may, before being dragged out again for contempt, say unspeakable things to the victims and their families, or laugh in their faces. They have little or nothing to lose. It would compound the suffering of the victims and their families.

A friend well-versed in court procedure put a different spin on Letby’s non-appearance. She said that it shows Letby, and indeed the world, that the wheels of justice will keep on turning, no matter what. Despite her behaviour, she couldn’t evade the process and she has been duly sentenced.

I find it of some comfort to think of it in their terms. I hope we never see the like of this case ever again.

those terms, not their.

Re the prisoner attending the sentencing: a junior minister was interviewed on Good Morning Britain today. She said, at least twice, that there were laws already in place to make defendants appear in court for their sentencing. When asked why LL was not being taken to court, in accordance with those rules, she just replied that the govt were doing something about it. In fact, she had no answer and it was the usual ministerial waffle.

On another note, I'd thought that the victim statements were intended to be made to the perpetrator in order to help the victims gain some sort of restitution. They face the perpetrator and tell them exactly what they thought of their actions. Sometimes apparently this has proved to be beneficial, not only to the victims but also to the criminal when they are faced with the reality of their crime.

In the case of LL however, there is no way she was going to listen to the victims. It may have helped them for their statements to be read court, but maybe not if they were expecting a show of remorse,however slight.

I wonder if some people find it difficult to believe she is guilty because she is pretty and wholesome looking.

Offenders like Letby won’t be made to feel guilty or remorseful by listening to, or reading victim impact statements. That requires empathy

Kate1949

I wonder if some people find it difficult to believe she is guilty because she is pretty and wholesome looking.

Yes indeed Kate1949. I do wonder how different the press reaction to this dreadful crime might have been if the guilty nurse had been black, brown - or even a refugee!

Scary thought varian. The daily mail has been consistent in referring to a ‘middle class upbringing’.
No doubt it’s digging as we write, trying to find anything to explain her actions

That's what I was wondering varian.

Is there something wrong with a middle-class upbringing?

I would imagine everyone has been digging to try to discover the motive for her actions.

Iam64

Offenders like Letby won’t be made to feel guilty or remorseful by listening to, or reading victim impact statements. That requires empathy

I did wonder what difference the statements would make or if she will, in fact, read them at all.

If she had been in court when the statements were made she couldn't unhear them.

Inside the uni halls-style prison where Lucy Letby will spend the rest of her life: Killer nurse with 14 life sentences will see out days in HMP Low Newton where inmates go shopping for snacks and clothes, sleep in pink cells and pet animals

The 33-year-old, who will be held in segregation at first to stop her being attacked by fellow
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12428235/Lucy-Letby-jailed-prison-fellow-serial-killer-Joanna-Dennehy-Rose-West-Baby-Ps-mother-served-time-HMP-Low-Newton-inmates-sleep-pink-cells-chance-pet-baby-animals.html, will be in HMP Low Newton in Durham

BlueBelle

What does your husband base his feelings on exdancer ?

Because she looks pretty, happy, carefree and not like a murderer?

Unless Ex-Dancer's DH has intimate knowledge of the case which the rest of us are not privy to, then those views are baseless.

She's a suicide risk. I doubt she'll last long.

Eazybee - are you suggesting I think there’s something ‘ wrong with a middle class upbringing?

Kate1949

I wonder if some people find it difficult to believe she is guilty because she is pretty and wholesome looking.

It’s reported that she’s an intelligent girl. Surely she would realise her name would be connected to each murder as she was on duty every time unlike other nurses. Odd. A good scapegoat though for someone cunning or with a vengeance. Just saying. Expect the jury considered all that.

Oh, I think she will. She is very good at keeping her head under the radar.

I think she will be a model prisoner, integrate as soon as she is allowed, do some OU degrees, start the process of appeals, and probably in twenty years time it will be deemed inhumane to lock people up for life.

Who would believe prisoners could refuse to attend court for sentencing.

123gran

Kate1949

I wonder if some people find it difficult to believe she is guilty because she is pretty and wholesome looking.

It’s reported that she’s an intelligent girl. Surely she would realise her name would be connected to each murder as she was on duty every time unlike other nurses. Odd. A good scapegoat though for someone cunning or with a vengeance. Just saying. Expect the jury considered all that.

Expect the jury considered all that
I'm sure they did.

As you appear to know things that no-one else does, do you have anyone particular in mind? You do not appear to believe that justice has been done after all the evidence presented to the court, to which, I presume, you are not privy?

Why did you not present your thoughts to her defence barrister?