Lucy Letby found guilty.

I think there were unanimous verdicts on two charges and some of the others were 10-1. (One of the jury had to give up because of personal problems.)

To those sticking up for LL, there's none so blind as those that won't see. Those poor families have enough to cope with without LL friend and parents protesting her innocence.

I'm not sticking up for her. Just trying to fathom such a complex series of actions set in an even more complex environment. If only life was completely black and white and straightforward- it would be much simpler!

I have actually decided that, as with so many killers like her, we can try and analyse things until the cows come home and we will be none the wiser. Even if they explained why they did it, could we believe them.

The only most trivial point i have noticed is that most of these killers get caught because they murder too many too often. The death and damage becomes so frequent that it ineveitable gets the attention of those who monitor such events, inquiries start and crimes are detected. All I can think of is that it becomes like an addiction and once the first few have taken place, they need to do it again - and again - and again - and it becomes compulsive.

I should imagine life is pretty black for the parents.

Agree with you again MOnica. We analyse, try to understand, find factors that might have influenced her. She will have fantasised before going on to harm her first victim, replayed the fantasy and the incident and continued that cycle. I struggle to understand how significant concerns from 4 experienced paediatricians can have been dismissed. Yes I understand the complexity legally but - they said she was the common denominator here.

I think there is utility in analysing the behaviour of those who do harm, it can help at a societal level, I dont mean analysis on line particularly, but some of the links between certain behaviours and serious crimes have helped inform police and social work practice.

Allsorts

To those sticking up for LL, there's none so blind as those that won't see. Those poor families have enough to cope with without LL friend and parents protesting her innocence.

Is anyone on here actually "sticking up" for her though?

However, I can see why her parents might have difficulty in coming to terms with the verdict, but not so much her friends, they might have been or thought they were, close friends, but that isn't the same relationship as parent and child.

Just look at the number of recorded incidents where someone who appeared ordinary and nice turned out to be the complete opposite. And fooled everyone for a very long time. As MOnica said, it's Arendt's banality of evil that fools us.

Do not think it is remotely possible for posters on here, just using what has been said in Court or they have read/heard in the media to even start to make an understanding as to WHY this woman committed these dreadful crimes. I am equally sure that many very highly educated psychologists will be spending many years both with LL and reading her diaries trying to determine this.

As for her parents I do have so much sympathy for them. At present their way of trying to come to terms with what their daughter is, is to convince themselves of her innocence. However much of a monster she may appear to the rest of the world she is and will remain their little girl. Sadly, over the next years they will slowly have to come to terms with the reality if what she has done. They will prpbably be advised by police to change their telephone number, to move away and to change their name. There will always be horrid, ignorant people around who will feel that it will be an idea to take out on this elderly couple revenge for what thei daughter did. Their lives are in total ruin at the moment, their only child - one in whom they had so much pride at the work she was doing etc. Now, and for the rest of their lives they will only be able see her on high security prisons on visiting days.

However, now the trial is finished and the guilty verdict has been delivered, surely those poor babies who survived her administrations, but left with severe, life changing damage can claim financial recompense from the NHS. Whereas, obviously no amount of money can make up for their ruined lives, but it can help to make their lives (and that of their parents/carers) much easier.

This case is not going away - as so much more needs to be learned as to what really happened behind the scenes whn so may doctors, etc were expressing their concerns about this woman and management appear to have been protecting her. Further trials will take place.

Galaxy

I think there is utility in analysing the behaviour of those who do harm, it can help at a societal level, I dont mean analysis on line particularly, but some of the links between certain behaviours and serious crimes have helped inform police and social work practice.

Maybe one of the reasons why the public at large speculate on the reasons why someone commits unspeakable crimes is because it's very unnerving to have to accept that there may not be a reason.

Our security lies in being able to fathom and control our environment, our world which we can only do if we understand it. If we have to accept that there's no reason, no logic - then we are faced with not being in control of our destiny, so to speak. And that's quite an alarming prospect.

I agree with both Franbern and Dickens.

I'm not sure that there is always a 'why', much as I understand the need of parents to find a reason for the death of their babies. I also understand Letby's parents (and her friends) not accepting that the woman they know can be capable of doing such a horrific thing. I can't imagine my daughter or any of my friends doing that, and nor can I imagine being able to imagine it if they were found guilty - it's just too much to take in.

My sympathies are with so many people in this case - the parents of the dead and injured babies, Letby's parents and friends, the staff who worked with her who must be reliving every chance they might have had to save a baby's life, the jurors - this is such a far-reaching case that will have serious implications for a lot of people.

I haven’t read the full thread (yet, just sat down with a coffee!), neither have I read anything but the media headlines.

Is she thought to have assumed the babies were so poorly they were unlikely to survive and she was hastening the inevitable?

Many decades ago a relative’s baby died at a few weeks old, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. The trauma is still apparent, for the parents and older siblings. How could a neonatal nurse not see how utterly devastating the death of any child is for the family?

That she had the right to remain in her cell rather than face sentencing is a travesty of the legal system. And where there is no possible doubt as to the identity of the murderer, I absolutely believe she should forfeit her right to life.

twiglet No-one (and I really do mean no-one) has the right to take the life of anyone else, and that, for me incldes seate murder.

Regardless of that, surely a far better punishment is many, many years I(he is only 33 uears of age) in high security jail, most if it in isolation (to protect her from the other prisoners). And, maybe as time goes on and she slowly beginx to realise the horror she has carried out, she may give more information about those other babies.

Regarding whether she has the right to refuse to go into court for the final hearings, itg was discussed heere. Still not sure what people think can happen. Yes, she could be carried into court chained to a couple of officers - but what then?

If she just slimps to the floor refusing to stand jup, do they keep her standing between them all the time, or tie her to a chair? and she closes her eyes, maybe puts her fingers in her ears and goes 'lalalalala' all the time do they tape her mouth closed and force her arms to her side and tape up her eyelids??? And, if they injure her whilst doing all of this (over several hours), and she subsequent;y sues..........??????? And, all of this continuous to make it ALL ABOUT HER, which will absolutely delight her.

I agree with both Franbern and Dickens.

So do I.
I was disappointed last night and this morning to see two different people interviewed who are rather desperately trying to turn this into a race issue. They are claiming that Lucy Letby was allowed to continue killing because she is white and therefore beyond suspicion. And additionally that because one of the consultants was Asian, he was disbelieved because of his race.
How low can some people get?

I am amazed how calm letby was during her arrest and interviews by police and them in her trial. Only occasional tears shed....

I know the parents of the babies' grief is more important, but DH and I, over breakfast the day after the verdict, were thinking of Mr and Mrs Letby. How would things be in their house. Or their lives ever again. It's quite an unusual name. Imagine trying to book a holiday etc etc. People will always look twice at them. Two more innocent sufferers.

Aveline I agree with you.. the mother was distraught at her daughters's arrest and in court, lucy on the other hand appeared calm..

her parents are relocating to Durham to be near the prison.

I can think of two murder cases which happened near me - in one case, the parents of the boy responsible did move away from the area after his conviction, but in the other, which was a very high profile case, the mother has resolutely maintained her son's innocence, despite the fact that numerous appeals have been rejected by the courts, and she continues to live locally.

I agree I dont know how as parents you could cope with the loss of a baby in such circumstances, I also dont know how as parents you could cope with the thought your child had committed such a horrific crimes, its possible to hold both thoughts at the same time.

When in training I worked on what were SCBU’s then, and if babies had been dying at the rate that they were at Letby’s unit whilst in my care, I would have been questioning my own competency, and am sure colleagues would have done the same. She didn’t appear to and seemed very confident.

The worry now is Letby’s legacy which will be long lasting, for parents whose babies need to be nursed on NICU units, that they will lose trust in the care and staff which will be so difficult for everyone.

Life is so much simpler if you just accept that that is what it is.
In this case: evil.

I dont want a simple life, I know that some people do and that's fine but not for me.

The Letbys will find it doubly hard to accept their daughter's guilt having been reassured personally (why: she is an adult?) by Harvey and Chambers that she had been bullied by the doctors, who had then been forced to apologise.

I feel very uneasy with the way some people seeing Lucy Letby's calmness etc when arrested as if not a sign of guilt, at least of sign of abnormality.

If I was arrested by the police and undergone what she did, setting aside the crimes committed, I would be just as calm and unemotional as she was. One of my mantra's from a very young age, even if never articulated clearly, has been 'never make a bad situation worse.'

This mantra has carried me through a whole series of difficult life crisis. I keep calm, assess the situation and then act in a way that will not exacerbate the situation, including avoiding expressing excessive emotion in any way.

There was nothing odd or exceptional about LL's failure to show emotion when arrested etc. With investigations of all kinds going on for years before the police were enjoyed, it will hardly have come as a surprise to her.

I don’t find her demeanour on arrest unusual. In my experience her attitude on the unit was.