Lucy Letby found guilty.

After seeing Lucy’s parent reaction to her crimes, I now understand how she could have done it.

When the consultants were finally allowed to talk to the police the decision to look into the case was taken in under 10 minutes.

Just to clarify, it wasn’t that the doctors concerns were ignored, it was that the initial investigation failed to prove that Lucy Letsby was involved. An independent report by the Royal College was commissioned by the hospital, and that reported in February 2017, before the police were involved.
I know people want to blame individuals for failing to stop the killer, but we weren’t there, we don’t know all the facts they had available.
www.itv.com/news/granada/2017-02-08/report-into-increased-deaths-of-premature-babies-at-chester-hospital

It’s commonly accepted that abusive childhood experiences can contribute to the personality development of people who go in to be abusive in adult life. I saw that in my working life but, I met many adults living good lives, being good parents, in spite of experiencing significant childhood trauma and abuse.

The need to ‘blame’ her parents, her upbringing runs through many comments here. As someone said upthread, her defence barrister will have looked for any mitigation and been using that, if it existed.

The brain is a complex organ. All kinds of things can go wrong during its development. But ultimately, we make choices about our behaviour.

Fact.Different people that could have done something, but tgey didn’t, her parents because they made Lucy, refuse to acknowledge any of her actions. Suffocating parents do no good.

Allsorts

Fact.Different people that could have done something, but tgey didn’t, her parents because they made Lucy, refuse to acknowledge any of her actions. Suffocating parents do no good.

People who could have done something , but didn’t - yes, that is a fact.
But to blame Lucy’s parents for “making her” or did you mean “made Lucy refuse to acknowledge her actions” ?
Not facts . Your suppositions.

Did you read your link, Casdon?

How would you feel if this has been your grandchild who was killed? Would you be so desperate to understand the managers who chose to ignore the senior paediatricians?

I find it incredible that you seem to want to absolve any responsibility of the senior managers.

Foxygloves

Allsorts

Fact.Different people that could have done something, but tgey didn’t, her parents because they made Lucy, refuse to acknowledge any of her actions. Suffocating parents do no good.

People who could have done something , but didn’t - yes, that is a fact.
But to blame Lucy’s parents for “making her” or did you mean “made Lucy refuse to acknowledge her actions” ?
Not facts . Your suppositions.

I’m not sure that the first part is a fact either. They did do something, just not what turned out to be the right thing. It’s negligent to do nothing. We can call their judgement into account, and assert they should have called the police sooner, but we can’t accuse them of doing nothing.

Suffocating parents are abusive just as much as the neglectful ones. No excuse, of course, for doing what she did but perhaps a factor. Actually, not perhaps but almost certainly. Now I don’t know about this particular case, as many have so kindly pointed out (and I said that from the start )but in general that would not help .

They did do something, just not what turned out to be the right thing

Dear me. It gets worse.

M0nica

I am married to an only child, who was much loved, but certainly not suffocated. I used to say of my lovely MiL that if at 16 DH had decided to go to Australia, she would have packed his bags and waved him off with a smile, and wept in private.

To make sweeping statements like that about only children, who can be counted in their millions, where women committing crimes like LL's can be counted on the fingers of one hand, strikes me as quite ridiculous.

She wrote about her guilt at living 100 miles away from her parents and not visiting them. Look, I’m only trying to think of things from her childhood that might have shaped the person she became. Other people on this thread have implied that bad things must have been done to her as a child to turn her into a monster but they haven’t had the criticism that I’ve had. I still feel terrible guilt about moving away from my parents and literally breaking their hearts. I’m only trying to think outside the box as to why something in her life might have triggered her terrible deeds. I’m only speaking for myself: in no way am I implying that every only child is suffocated. In my case it was because my mum had been trying for a baby for many years and it affected her mentally because back in the forties/ fifties losing baby after baby year after year with no explanation of why it was happening was sad beyond belief. Anyway, I’ll keep my thoughts to myself in future as I obviously unintentionally offend people and for that I apologise.

Louella12

Did you read your link, Casdon?

How would you feel if this has been your grandchild who was killed? Would you be so desperate to understand the managers who chose to ignore the senior paediatricians?

I find it incredible that you seem to want to absolve any responsibility of the senior managers.

You don’t understand at all what I’m saying do you Louella? Read my posts, I am not trying to absolve people of anything, I’m saying I understand how this could have happened. For the second time, that is not the same thing at all as saying they didn’t fail the babies. These managers are nurses and doctors themselves, don’t you think their remorse is huge for goodness sake?
If you can’t understand that things go wrong despite people trying to do their best in difficult circumstances I give up.

Blondiescot Exactly. I know from personal experience how an abusive childhood can lead to problems in adulthood. It can make life very difficult indeed. I also understand that there are different forms of abuse and Letby may have indeed felt smothered by her parents. That in itself wouldn't have led to her actions. Judith Moritz who covered the case for the BBC and was in court every day, has said today that a note from Letby was found stating 'I did this. I killed them because I'm not good enough'.

The notes are available on most mainstream news sites, they look like the writings of an extremely disturbed person.

People tend to look for rational explanations when incidents like this occur, but it could be that there is no rational explanation.

With hindsight, there might have been clues to Letby's state of mind, but I doubt very much whether the parents (or anybody else) consciously brought her up to be a baby killer.

There are some very serious concerns about the way the hospital reacted, but nobody except the killer herself was responsible for the murders.

Galaxy

The notes are available on most mainstream news sites, they look like the writings of an extremely disturbed person.

Or somebody who knows enough about psychosis to give the impression she was seriously mentally ill.

Possibly, I have seen similar notes from people who were very ill, and it reminded me of those, but yes she could have faked that.

Well as a much loved only child I can honestly say I have never ever been wanting the last biscuit I have always been a great sharer as anyone who knows me would tell you, so that’s a very simplistic thought I left home at 20 to go to the other side of the world it must have broke my parents heart but they got on with life and I didn’t really think of their feelings until much later in life

Why do we have to guilt anyone else perhaps she was just born with a kink

Meanwhile those tired cliches are rolled out for our consumption, 'Lessons have been learned' and 'Changes have been made'.
I don't think that is good enough. Detail exactly the lessons you have learned, then describe the changes you have actually made to date, and then list, with a timescale, the other changes you propose, to guarantee this will never be allowed to happen again.
Do all of that.

I think that's pushing it. Her notes started ages ago. She's not that clever. Just screwed up in ways unimaginable to us.

Does this case boil down to catastrophic human error? Hospital management systems seem to be inadequate in these circumstances and do not provide any protection. So how can management employ better methods/systems to ensure patient safety especially as consultants had given some warning? I hope the enquiry will address this issue in depth.

I have followed the story about the deaths of the babies right from the beginning. It is heartbreaking and I do hope that “lessons have been learned” is not just an empty phrase. This must not be allowed to happen again.

What happens to Whistleblowers in these situation? Yes, I know there is now going to be an inquiry, but, meanwhile, the Senior Management team has moved on. Where to? Similar good positions, or comfortable retirement? And what about the Doctors who complained? In the past, they would have found that their career path would stall, and they would be eased out of their positions. You read about it in the papers, maybe a year after all the interest has died down. What can we do to protect and encourage genuine, Whistleblowers?

growstuff

People tend to look for rational explanations when incidents like this occur, but it could be that there is no rational explanation.

With hindsight, there might have been clues to Letby's state of mind, but I doubt very much whether the parents (or anybody else) consciously brought her up to be a baby killer.

There are some very serious concerns about the way the hospital reacted, but nobody except the killer herself was responsible for the murders.

Yes, this.

It’s unimaginable to most of us to actually kill anyone, let alone defenceless children. We are unable to comprehend how anyone can do it and we look for reasons, but it may be that we’ll simply never know. Do we really know why other people kill children? Do we understand? We don’t, because it’s incomprehensible and horrifying to us.

growstuff

People tend to look for rational explanations when incidents like this occur, but it could be that there is no rational explanation.

With hindsight, there might have been clues to Letby's state of mind, but I doubt very much whether the parents (or anybody else) consciously brought her up to be a baby killer.

There are some very serious concerns about the way the hospital reacted, but nobody except the killer herself was responsible for the murders.

This, exactly. At the end of the day, the only person responsible for her crimes was Letby herself. Sometimes there is NO rational explanation, however much we might search for one.