What is left about Labour now?

Casdon

Glorianny

And I think you can be certain that the Conservative party recognised a winning strategy and is already identifying individuals with suitable records of local activism as candidates.

As is Labour, albeit not the people you would choose Glorianny. It’s not necessary to be left wing to be effective. I’m sure that’s what every party does in every election.

Like Uxbridge for example. Local party warned what would happen. Candidate imposed by them. It is a great pity that the only comment ever used to criticise or argue against my posts is my left wing beliefs. Evidence then is sadly lacking.

Casdon

Glorianny

Casdon

Absolutely right Whitewavemark2, and borne out by the poll results on a pretty consistent basis now.

Could you explain that? 49% think Starmer is doing badly as Labour leader. Only 30% think he is doing well and 21% don't know.
That's hardly a great record of support
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating

That’s par for the course for all political leaders Glorianny, it’s nothing remarkable at all. It’s hardly the point anyway though, is it? Look how popular Trump is. This isn’t about individuals, it’s about the fitness and preparedness of the Labour Party to govern, and as Whitewavemark3 said he has done an amazing job in four years. He’s built a strong team too, it’s not all about him.
What is most important is that what Starmer is doing is sensible and considered, which is winning the favour of the voting public.

Could you post some evidence of their achievements please?
The current poll puts the LP at 45% and the Tories at 28%.Surprisingly both parties gained since the previous poll which isn't really good for the LP.

Glorianny

And I think you can be certain that the Conservative party recognised a winning strategy and is already identifying individuals with suitable records of local activism as candidates.

As is Labour, albeit not the people you would choose Glorianny. It’s not necessary to be left wing to be effective. I’m sure that’s what every party does in every election.

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Of course the cynics could be correct and that Starmer’s strategy is as empty and gutless as they are suggesting on so many of these threads. But once Starmer wins and labour are back into power, those moaning Minnie’s will cease to have any traction and labour in government will no longer need to listen.

The point is that although on a percentage basis the LP would seem to be certain to win, we all know that in the end it will come down to certain seats and marginals in particular. Uxbridge shows how incompetent the LP head office is at handling these things just now. Refusing to recognise the importance of local level knowledge and insisting unsuitable candidates are chosen is a losing strategy. Marginal seats are lost through very few votes, and if it is the left of the LP who choose to vote green because of the failure of the leadership, or established Tories who turn out to support a well chosen candidate, the seat will still be lost. If Starmer could admit what happened at Uxbridge there might be some hope. But a Labour victory is far from certain and I'd like to see it made more sure. Lessons need to be learned.

What sort of lead in the poll would you like to be more certain of a Labour victory?

At the moment Labour are on 45% and Tory 26%. In the lead up to the 1997 election when Labour won one of the biggest majorities Labour were on 45% and the Tories on 30%. In 1997 the polls showed almost the exact opposite.

Of course we do have another year to go (unfortunately for the country) but Starmer’s judgement to date cannot be faulted. I would rather listen to his strategy than those who profess to have Labour’s best interests to heart and are intent on following a failed strategy that lost so many votes.

Please do not point to 2017, because Starmer didn’t start from there, he started from a much poorer base and with so much to make up.

And I think you can be certain that the Conservative party recognised a winning strategy and is already identifying individuals with suitable records of local activism as candidates.

I don’t think Keir will be able to do anything radical for a long time because he’s inheriting such a mess. And, I’m not sure that the poor in this country think if themselves as the poor who need to be looking after and felt sorry for; maybe they’re aspirational and that’s why they latched onto Johnson.And being wealthy doesn’t make someone an evil person; it’s what they do with that wealth that matters. Anyway, my daughter left teaching because she felt she could no longer teach under a Conservative government, but she’s planning to go back to work when we have a Labour government again.

Glorianny

Casdon

Absolutely right Whitewavemark2, and borne out by the poll results on a pretty consistent basis now.

Could you explain that? 49% think Starmer is doing badly as Labour leader. Only 30% think he is doing well and 21% don't know.
That's hardly a great record of support
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating

That’s par for the course for all political leaders Glorianny, it’s nothing remarkable at all. It’s hardly the point anyway though, is it? Look how popular Trump is. This isn’t about individuals, it’s about the fitness and preparedness of the Labour Party to govern, and as Whitewavemark3 said he has done an amazing job in four years. He’s built a strong team too, it’s not all about him.
What is most important is that what Starmer is doing is sensible and considered, which is winning the favour of the voting public.

I think Glorianny is right about Uxbridge and that pushing the blame for the result on Sadiq Khan was a mistake, but also an indication of his character.

Rachel Reeves said in the Telegraph that she won't be bringing in a wealth tax.
I understand about Starmer needing to get votes from Conservative voters, and that by keeping the present Conservative policies he will be allowed to take power.
You can't really say though, that it is him and his allies that will win the next election, but that the Conservatives will lose it.
He also may decide that the way to keep on winning is to continue with Conservative policies.

Whitewavemark2

Of course the cynics could be correct and that Starmer’s strategy is as empty and gutless as they are suggesting on so many of these threads. But once Starmer wins and labour are back into power, those moaning Minnie’s will cease to have any traction and labour in government will no longer need to listen.

The point is that although on a percentage basis the LP would seem to be certain to win, we all know that in the end it will come down to certain seats and marginals in particular. Uxbridge shows how incompetent the LP head office is at handling these things just now. Refusing to recognise the importance of local level knowledge and insisting unsuitable candidates are chosen is a losing strategy. Marginal seats are lost through very few votes, and if it is the left of the LP who choose to vote green because of the failure of the leadership, or established Tories who turn out to support a well chosen candidate, the seat will still be lost. If Starmer could admit what happened at Uxbridge there might be some hope. But a Labour victory is far from certain and I'd like to see it made more sure. Lessons need to be learned.

Grany

True Glorianny

When a politician is offering zero policies to make the world a better place but is in line to be the next PM you have to ask yourself why he wants the job.

Power for power’s sake.

Starmer caves in while leader will do what establishment want when in power.

There will be no change.

He is a liar.

There will be riots when people see that there is no change

If there aren’t riots at the moment given the way the current government treats the people of this country, I can’t see there being riots when Keir is PM.

Of course the cynics could be correct and that Starmer’s strategy is as empty and gutless as they are suggesting on so many of these threads. But once Starmer wins and labour are back into power, those moaning Minnie’s will cease to have any traction and labour in government will no longer need to listen.

Casdon

Absolutely right Whitewavemark2, and borne out by the poll results on a pretty consistent basis now.

Could you explain that? 49% think Starmer is doing badly as Labour leader. Only 30% think he is doing well and 21% don't know.
That's hardly a great record of support
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating

True Glorianny

When a politician is offering zero policies to make the world a better place but is in line to be the next PM you have to ask yourself why he wants the job.

Power for power’s sake.

Starmer caves in while leader will do what establishment want when in power.

There will be no change.

He is a liar.

There will be riots when people see that there is no change

If anyone is thinking that Jamie Driscoll was rejected because he is "far left" take a look at his website. He's committed to working with employers and to green transport policies. He's exactly the sort of politician Labour should be supporting. So why isn't Starmer?
jamiedriscoll.co.uk/
I love his strap line- "Shy bairns get nowt"

Absolutely right Whitewavemark2, and borne out by the poll results on a pretty consistent basis now.

But there is substantial evidence that at a local level Starmer is failing to do that. Two examples
Uxbridge where the Labour candidate was someone parachuted in, who local party members warned Starmer would not win. The Conservatives- widely tipped to lose because of Boris- had a local man who was known to be active in the community. Labour lost. Even then Starmer refused to take responsibility and blamed ULEZ and Sadiq Khan!!
Mayor of the North where the LP refused to allow the present Mayor to stand and has selected a woman with little experience who has been an ineffective police commissioner. Jamie Driscoll was rejected because he shared a platform with Ken Loach. He is an immensely popular and active politician who has fundraised enough to run as an independent. He has a great track record and will significantly split the Labour vote, and may very well win.
Starmer's strategy isn't winning him any support anywhere. It's simply making him appear untrustworthy, inflexible. and intent on selling the LP to the highest bidder.

Whitewave 100% spot on, thank you

Whitewave 👏👏👏

I think all of us who are on the left are hoping that the next Labour government will fulfil our dreams, but first we have to get a Labour Government into power, and it seems to me that Starmer’s primary focus is on winning first and last.

To do so he must win back the trust of the red wall, gain the trust of disillusioned Tory voters and win the vote of “middle” England whilst negotiating a rabid right wing press and media.
All that from the worst base he could possibly have inherited in 2019, when it was predicted that labour would be out of power for at least another 10 years.

It is an enormous task, but his strategy of moderation, refusing to frighten the horses and taking the IFS with him is working.

If the polls are remotely correct, and Labour win the sort of majority they are suggesting, then I think that commentators so far do not seem even partway to understanding that our politics will change, and change radically from the moribund state we have found ourselves in during the past 13 years and particularly as this failing government is mesmerised by its internal divisions and lack of policy.

We are in a different world from the last Labour government, but those same drivers towards radical reform still exist, and with the sort of majority that the polls are suggesting, there will nothing to stop the next government from producing policies to get Britain back on track towards a more humane, productive economy with policies to match. But none of this can happen whatever your dreams if Labour fail to win.

Winning is the goal - first and last.

MaizieD

Why are people defending the wealthy?

There is an enormous difference between being wealthy and being part of the so called super rich

Personally I do not want to see the wealthy taxed anymore than they already are.

As for leaving inheritance tax allowance alone, I have a much better idea, do away with it all together.

The Australian system seems to work well, they have no inheritance tax on death, simplified version as I understand it if you inherit a property valued at 200,000 Aus Dollars and sell it at a later date for 300,000 Aus Dollars you will pay tax on the 100,000 difference.

Why are people defending the wealthy?

Katie59

The problem with wealth is that it is portable, there are many low tax countries that will welcome you, a wealth tax that hits the ultra rich will see them leave in large numbers.

A wealth tax of 1% has been suggested, on £10m assets would mean a tax of £100,000, the cost of living in Switzerland is high but with that much extra UK tax many will leave

Is that a threat or a promise, Katy59?

Keir Starmer isn't hiding anything though. He has made it perfectly plain that he will continue with Conservative policies and follow conservative idealogy.

I think those of us on the left who want a more equal society just have to accept that for the present, while the current leadership is in place, there is no real left wing presence in the Labour party.
A few MPs, if they keep under Starmer's radar, may escape the chop. But his choosing Rachel Reeves as his chancellor should have indicated which direction he wanted to follow. I know he misled the party in order to get himself elected as leader but I don't think he is misleading the country about his intentions now,
So we have a choice now, after all, he has told us "you know where the door is" do we walk away or stay and hope for change?

The talk of centre politics what’s that. In 2017 2019 manifesto people wanted those policies of public ownership and taxing the richest. The paid staffers sabotaged the election wanting to loose including Starmer . Giving the tories more years to ruin this country. The votes of 2017 and 2019 were more than 2005 Blair, Brown and Miliband years. But first past the post voting system meant Boris

So talk of people just wanting centre A socialist Corbyn government for the many a real democracy nearly won if not for his paid staff etc. The socialists will come back for a more fairer society they and many are disillusioned with Starmer and the establishment.

Stop Starmer
Starmer Out
Unseat Starmer