More than 100 schools told to close buildings over safety fears

No one needs to be qualified in anything. If a structural job was done and guaranteed for 30 years, then it should be registered on file with a reminder date to re do it when the time has elapsed. This is where schools benefit from a business manager, accountant, bursar or whatever. But of course it then relies ongetting the job done straightaway, not hanging about.

growstuff

Callistemon21

growstuff

An additional problem will be if the ceilings have asbestos.

And they've known about the hazards of asbestos for over a hundred years!

I know. The school where I taught was known to have asbestos in the ceilings, but we were assured it was safe, if it wasn't disturbed. That school is one of the ones which is having to close completely because there is so much RAAC. Can you imagine what would happen if a ceiling collapsed and filled the place with asbestos dust?

It actually makes me want to weep with rage!!

mazzie66

Glorianny, it’s you who is completely wrong here. My son is full time Site Manager at a small primary school, the smallest in the borough in terms of pupil numbers. He carries out all the tasks ImogenMac outlined earlier plus many others such as driving the minibus and being allocated specific children to be responsible for when the school is out and about on excursions or attending events. He is a valued and trusted member of the school team. I checked with him yesterday evening. He tells me that all primary schools in the borough have a full time Site Manager. He has met a number of them when attending the same training course.

But I doubt if he's a qualified structural engineer, who would recognise RAAC.

Callistemon21

growstuff

An additional problem will be if the ceilings have asbestos.

And they've known about the hazards of asbestos for over a hundred years!

I know. The school where I taught was known to have asbestos in the ceilings, but we were assured it was safe, if it wasn't disturbed. That school is one of the ones which is having to close completely because there is so much RAAC. Can you imagine what would happen if a ceiling collapsed and filled the place with asbestos dust?

Glorianny, it’s you who is completely wrong here. My son is full time Site Manager at a small primary school, the smallest in the borough in terms of pupil numbers. He carries out all the tasks ImogenMac outlined earlier plus many others such as driving the minibus and being allocated specific children to be responsible for when the school is out and about on excursions or attending events. He is a valued and trusted member of the school team. I checked with him yesterday evening. He tells me that all primary schools in the borough have a full time Site Manager. He has met a number of them when attending the same training course.

growstuff

An additional problem will be if the ceilings have asbestos.

And they've known about the hazards of asbestos for over a hundred years!

Very interesting formerly twitter thread about the implications of rectification.

Opening tweet:

I proj managed a 1200sq m #RAAC removal/replacement scheme last year in a public sector building. Lots of talk from politicians re the survey/audit phase. Follows is about design/build scheme itself - all disruption to users and cost considerations. thread..

twitter.com/garrie_coleman/status/1698229992591643019

Casdon

I must admit I’ve got a bad feeling about this. I’ve just read an article about affected hospitals too. It’s going to cost billions now in the short term to rectify problems that have been known about for years, and where serious safety concerns were raised in 2018 when a school had an unexpected collapse.

If it's any consolation (it's actually not, I'm being frivolous) but the economic activity involved in rectifying these problems will do wonders for the UK GDP figure...

It will mean more money circulating in the domestic economy and a boost to growth.

Not that that will be much consolation to the poor children whose education will be disrupted for the 2nd time in 5 years, nor to the teachers who are going to to have to teach in temporary and not always suitable accommodation.

An additional problem will be if the ceilings have asbestos.

Not mocking a very serious situation, but isn't it KARMA, that this issue has hit the headlines, just as Westminster proposes a dilution of planning standards? This planning proposal was discussed on another thread, and some GNs thought it was fair enough to do so. Still feel that way, anyone?

I must admit I’ve got a bad feeling about this. I’ve just read an article about affected hospitals too. It’s going to cost billions now in the short term to rectify problems that have been known about for years, and where serious safety concerns were raised in 2018 when a school had an unexpected collapse.

It was only last week that Schools Minister Nick Gibb said that pupils missing out on even a couple of days of class could have a 'detrimental effect' on exam results and social skills.

One local headteacher, whose school will be more or less closed, said that he was told in June that his school had RAAC and was advised to put mitigations in place. I'm not sure what these mitigations were supposed to be or who was going to pay for them. He was told on Thursday that most of the classrooms couldn't be used. The school was built in 1964 and was due to be rebuilt from 2010.

I wonder what kind of effect Mr Gibb thinks this will have on the pupils.

Whitewavemark2

Michael Gove scrapped the £56bn school building project, inherited from the Labour government, and that was set to replace every single RAAC school in the UK.

He then replaced it with nothing.

Gove - the man’s a disaster

Apparently the timing wasn't great because July was the wettest on record this year.
If excessive water gets in, the concrete soaks it up and becomes more vulnerable. (A stupid material to use seeing as we don't have a nice dry climate in the UK!)
My guess is that due to the dfe being pretty idle during the summer holidays, (and civil servants working from home), nothing much was done about urgent investigations over this summer period to put plans in place for a more manageable return to school next week.

Michael Gove scrapped the £56bn school building project, inherited from the Labour government, and that was set to replace every single RAAC school in the UK.

He then replaced it with nothing.

Over 10% of Essex schools have now been identified as affected. If that figure really is replicated throughout the country, it's a huge problem.

paddyann54

CASDON and that may be the case but the programme of new and refurbished schools here show a willingness to deal with a problem and NOT just announce a new initiative that never happens as does with your government .
Similar to our affordable homes.over 120 thousand new homes in the same timescale ,over 70% of them not just affordable but social or as we call them COUNCIL houses.Thats because we have a government which is delivering on manifesto pledges and councils who dont USE their housing budget have it taken off them and given to councils who do build the right houses ....for people who need them.My area has hundreds of lovely new homes scattered across it .Dont believe the media spin about Scotland suffering under devolution ,nothing could be further from the truth

Thirty five schools identified with problems with RAAC so far in Scotland.

ImogenMac

growstuff
I believe you are consistently misconstruing my posts so I am ignoring you , in the absence of a block button.

That's your choice! I'm not misconstruing anything, but you keep saying that local authorities and councils are responsible for building surveys, when they're not.

HousePlantQueen

Essex has a few "new" towns such as Harlow, Basildon, Etc which presumably accounts for a high percentage of new buildings such as schools.

It's not just the new towns, but existing towns such as Colchester experienced a huge growth in population in the post war years.

growstuff

Casdon It could be that Essex built a disproportionate number of new schools during the time period affected and used a certain style of building. Essex experienced a huge population growth at the time, as people moved out of London into more (what were at the time) leafy areas, so new schools were needed. I spent most of my career teaching in Essex schools and most of them were built at about the same time and used the same style of building.

PS. That's just a hypothesis.

Possibly, although in our area of Wales, schools which were only opened in the 1980s are being replaced with new buildings.

growstuff
I believe you are consistently misconstruing my posts so I am ignoring you , in the absence of a block button.

Has anyone mentioned Social Housing? My daughter lives in a council maisonette and has had problems with the roof for 14 yrs, her maisonette has a flat roof which is actually the flat aboves garden/patio space. She got a message this morning from the council rapid response repair team saying they are coming next week to carry out repairs, so she knew nothing and text back to ask what they were repairing and the answer was they were a new company to this council and hadn’t received the full report of works yet.
It seems very coincidental and they never normally contact at weekends. I’m very suspicious this is a survey on the qt to see if RACC is the problem.
Am I being paranoid?

Essex has a few "new" towns such as Harlow, Basildon, Etc which presumably accounts for a high percentage of new buildings such as schools.

Casdon It could be that Essex built a disproportionate number of new schools during the time period affected and used a certain style of building. Essex experienced a huge population growth at the time, as people moved out of London into more (what were at the time) leafy areas, so new schools were needed. I spent most of my career teaching in Essex schools and most of them were built at about the same time and used the same style of building.

PS. That's just a hypothesis.

ImogenMac

All schools, including Academies and Independent schools are required to adhere to certain legal responsibilities , much of which applies to this thread and indeed all schools.

But they're not the responsibility of local authorities and councils, which is what you claimed.