More than 100 schools told to close buildings over safety fears

Thank you for this Trurider. Can this be shared?

The UK press is full of items about schools being closed because of Reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete. It is as if this issue has only just surfaced when in fact it was known about in the mid 1980's. I won't go into why I was one of the first people to discover it but I was. The problem was the concrete mix allowed water to penetrate which would cause the steel reinforcement to rust whch woul them SPALL causing minature cracks throughout the block. By the time it was realised tens of thousand of blocks of flats, schools, Hospitals, Governmetn buildings, Police station and even fire engines had been built from this material. The cost or replacement and repair was beyond anyone and the two companies that made it went bankrupt to avoid having to pay out. For years building have been pulled down prematurely to avoid them faling down by themselves. One particular issue was Bridges built of the stuff and to avoid the press finding ou, we put out a cover story that we were X raying the pilllars of bridges especially Spagetti Junction for bodies put in the concrete by criminals when in fact we wer checking them for evidence of decay. WE also left empty flats in blocks so we could install monitoring equipment. There was a detailed plan to be follwed BUT many Government Labour and Conservative have let it slide.

Glorianny

Joseann

Of course not, Glorianny, but in a discussion such as this about life and death situations, I wouldn't dream of pitting one group of children against another. Children are children, whoever they maybe, wherever they are educated, whatever, and their safety is paramount. Attack the politicians by all means, I'm in agreement with that, but implying that their children would be immune to upheaval and their schools automatically safe is unfair. They may very well be affected as I confirmed to Fleurpepper earlier.
But no, they wouldnt be sent home or crowded at short notice, because their schools have a team of maintenance staff on hand anyway. Oh, and they work all summer through the holidays.

But one group of children are pitted against another Joseannand it is absolutely nothing to do with me. One group will emerge at the end of their schooling having had little if any interruption. The other group will emerge after years of disruption and chaos. Now which group will do best I wonder?

As for the team of maintenance staff working right through the summer, many people would be willing to do that if they were paid for it. As it is cleaners, secretaries, support staff etc are only paid in term time, would you expect them to work for nothing?

They are indeed- and none of the children are responsible for this. I've never tried to hide that my GCs and all my nieces and nephews go to top private schools- all in ancient, pre concrete buildings, with some modern extensions.

But yes, it is a fact that this small group will have no suffered from Covid disruptions as other children did, and now this.

Eldest GC will be doing A'Levels this year, and youngest GCSEs- they will work very hard and do brilliantly- and I shall be very proud. But the fact remains, they are at a huge advantage in so so many ways.

We've suffered 13 years of Tory mismanagement. Giving to the rich and taking from the poor. The government doesn't invest in public services anymore. Their children will no doubt be educated privately so it won't matter to them. Can't wait to see them gone before the country is bankrupted

So much going wrong. Perhaps Parliament should be recalled.They have been on leave since 20th July while this country has gone from bad to worse.

Joseann

Of course not, Glorianny, but in a discussion such as this about life and death situations, I wouldn't dream of pitting one group of children against another. Children are children, whoever they maybe, wherever they are educated, whatever, and their safety is paramount. Attack the politicians by all means, I'm in agreement with that, but implying that their children would be immune to upheaval and their schools automatically safe is unfair. They may very well be affected as I confirmed to Fleurpepper earlier.
But no, they wouldnt be sent home or crowded at short notice, because their schools have a team of maintenance staff on hand anyway. Oh, and they work all summer through the holidays.

But one group of children are pitted against another Joseannand it is absolutely nothing to do with me. One group will emerge at the end of their schooling having had little if any interruption. The other group will emerge after years of disruption and chaos. Now which group will do best I wonder?

As for the team of maintenance staff working right through the summer, many people would be willing to do that if they were paid for it. As it is cleaners, secretaries, support staff etc are only paid in term time, would you expect them to work for nothing?

Fleurpepper

I wonder if any Private schools are concerned?

A wall has been "secured" at a private school in Perthshire. It is run by the MoD.

The government off for the whole of Summer, preening strutting nincompoops. As my Dad would say I wouldn’t pay em with washers”.
We seem to have no government anymore. I have always voted
Conservative but this last fiasco is the end. Our children’ safety
is paramount.Their education ,uninterrupted, is absolutely necessary.

Of course not, Glorianny, but in a discussion such as this about life and death situations, I wouldn't dream of pitting one group of children against another. Children are children, whoever they maybe, wherever they are educated, whatever, and their safety is paramount. Attack the politicians by all means, I'm in agreement with that, but implying that their children would be immune to upheaval and their schools automatically safe is unfair. They may very well be affected as I confirmed to Fleurpepper earlier.
But no, they wouldnt be sent home or crowded at short notice, because their schools have a team of maintenance staff on hand anyway. Oh, and they work all summer through the holidays.

Callistemon21

Joseann

And, of course, you can guarantee that their kids, most of whom will be in private schools, won't be affected... they will be safe, thank you very much.
Now that is a silly thing to say. Even children of the royals are in private schools which may not be immune to crumbling concrete. It isn't just the school buildings, it is also the extensions which were added as schools expanded during this period.

Many private schools are housed in ancient buildings.

You’re right, but all those I’m aware of also have additions like science blocks, gyms etc. so I doubt if they didn’t have the issue, but as it’s been known to be a risk since 2018 you’d hope that they would have opened their coffers and got any issues sorted by now (assuming they were aware?). Unfortunately state sector schools haven’t had the luxury of being able to do that.

It looks like they have done surveys in the hospitals in Wales, I saw this morning that several are having or have had work done already.

Joseann

^And, of course, you can guarantee that their kids, most of whom will be in private schools, won't be affected... they will be safe, thank you very much.^
Now that is a silly thing to say. Even children of the royals are in private schools which may not be immune to crumbling concrete. It isn't just the school buildings, it is also the extensions which were added as schools expanded during this period.

Many private schools are housed in ancient buildings.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I guess the poor timing is partly because MPs are on recess over the summer. They've known about this, particularly with hospitals, for ages, years, and done nothing about it. There's also widespread asbestos in school buildings, hopefully that's in earlier ones but it could add to the difficulty in making it all safe again.

Joseann

^And, of course, you can guarantee that their kids, most of whom will be in private schools, won't be affected... they will be safe, thank you very much.^
Now that is a silly thing to say. Even children of the royals are in private schools which may not be immune to crumbling concrete. It isn't just the school buildings, it is also the extensions which were added as schools expanded during this period.

So do you imagine the children in private schools will be sent home, or crowded into unsuitable temporary accommodation at short notice?
And yes the royals are in private schools. Perhaps if they weren't but, they were in state schools, more would be done to maintain those schools.

So, here we are - in a rich country, risking the lives of children. I'm sure that safety assessments have been done and are ongoing - yet this material is notoriously difficult to assess. Brickwork or stonework would show some cracking and movement before any collapse, steel supports or frames would bend - but, oh no, it was just fine to build schools with this stuff.

I suppose, like asbestos, the potential danger wasn't apparent back then. Now that it is, we expect prompt and drastic action, surely.

And, of course, you can guarantee that their kids, most of whom will be in private schools, won't be affected... they will be safe, thank you very much.
Now that is a silly thing to say. Even children of the royals are in private schools which may not be immune to crumbling concrete. It isn't just the school buildings, it is also the extensions which were added as schools expanded during this period.

Grand daughter’s school affected! Not sure what is happening!
Local hospital had to be rebuilt as well !
Gov has known about this for years!
13 years of incompetence springs to mind ! Nothing surprises me anymore !

EEJit

Hetty58

Too little, far too late - just as expected from this government, so no surprise to me either.

It's not only this government. Most of the schools were built in the 60s under Labour. They knew it was only supposed to last 30 years, Labour again in the 90s.

And before I'm accused of being a Conservative, I detest both parties.

The schools affected in Essex were built since the 1960s by Essex County Council (or its predecessor), which was Conservative.

I'm feeling deja vu here.when I went to uni in the 70s, our library was closed for half the year due to a previous scare over concrete.
In fact there's an article I found about the similarities with the current one- dated 2021 so not sure why it's taken so long to do anything
www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/concrete-crisis-blighting-nhs-hospitals-echoes-1970s-hac-debacle-25-08-2021/

More evidence of broken Britain. Chickens coming home to roost. I feel so sorry for the children (and parents) caught up in this. Children have had a difficult time in recent years with the unavoidable disruptions from Covid. The current last-minute buildings crisis could have been avoided with regular and appropriate surveys, maintenance and repair.

What a sham. Mr Sunak speaking and promising that, "Your children will be safe" as if its some anomaly that , we, the common people should be grateful for. There are no words strong enough to describe how heinous this government is. The issue was pointed out ages ago.

Do a few children have to get hurt of die before this Tory government takes action? And, of course ,you can guarantee that their kids, most of whom will be in private schools, won't be affected... they will be safe, thank you very much, and have the uninterrupted education that all children deserve.

EEJit

Hetty58

Too little, far too late - just as expected from this government, so no surprise to me either.

It's not only this government. Most of the schools were built in the 60s under Labour. They knew it was only supposed to last 30 years, Labour again in the 90s.

And before I'm accused of being a Conservative, I detest both parties.

As has been said there was a rebuilding programme under Labour.

A school collapsed in 2018. But only recently has it been discovered that the concrete does not necessarily show signs of any strain before becoming dangerous and liable to collapse.
The Tory government was probably hoping some of these schools would survive just beyond the next GE when they could happily pass the cost onto a Labour government, and then they could complain about the level of spending!

If it shows anything this whole debacle shows how wrong it is to imagine cutting costs, and not investing in school buildings, is any sort of policy to pursue. Of course substantial numbers of children belonging to many politicians, the rich and the powerful won't be affected because they are in private schools.

Callistemon21

By they I mean the Government as head teachers have been reporting problems and trying to deal with this for some time now.

They have known for 5-years, since a ceiling collapsed in a school in 2018. Yet they have waited until a few days before the new term 5-years later to take this action. The incompetence of this Government knows no bounds.
www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/raac-crisis-escalates-as-more-than-100-schools-told-to-get-out-now

Gwenisgreat

I remember my 5 year old daughter telling a nurse in the hospital telling her she should stop working in the falling down hospital and DD was definitely not going to be a nurse! That hospital has since been rebuilt over 40 years ago! So this is a new problem?

Meanwhile, this is my sister's local hospital.

mazzie66

Growstuff. My apologies if my comment came across that way. I didn’t intend to cause offence.

No problem.