We’re rejoining the Horizon programme….

25Avalon

Trurider you are banging your head on a brick wall. I suggest abandoning this thread as they will never ever concede any point you make. Sad really.

It seems from the rude replies that you’re right☹️
As someone who voted to remain in the EU I was disappointed with their attitude about us staying in the Horizon programme ( and no, being out of the club shouldn’t have had anything to do with it.) Countries not in the EU are in Horizon.It was used as a bargaining chip by the EU, sadly.
Anyone who thinks the EU doesn’t do anything like that needs to think again.

Trurider you are banging your head on a brick wall. I suggest abandoning this thread as they will never ever concede any point you make. Sad really.

growstuff

Oh dear Trurider it would appear you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

I second this. She really doesn't have a clue.

Oh dear Trurider it would appear you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

AhEurophile and Remoaners jump up and down thinking they are seeing something when in fact they just do not understand. The UK had agreed prior to leaving the E.U. participation in the Horizon project. But when we left the E.U. acted like a Spoilt child and said YOU are not playing with my toys.

We said - Fine We will keep our money which upset them.

We then said - WE had an agreement and we will see you in Court. Guess who has won!!!

Now everyone appreciates that making deals with the E.U. is not straight forward as the E.U. is not trustworthy.

The UK will now receive the LION share of funding until such tiem as Balance is restored per the Original Agreement and here is no NEW Agreement - just that teh E.U. is COIMPELLED to Comply.

25Avalon

It started off as a trading block WWM2. Then it was the EEC European Economic Community and that’s what was put to us to vote for when we first agreed to join. It, however, ceased to be just a trading block and became political. We paid thousands in which we didn’t get back, our laws and sovereignty were overthrown. We no longer controlled our own destiny. That is mostly the reason I voted leave but I admit I didn’t expect that there would be so many voting the same. So we voted leave and left in a democratic vote. However there were so many blocks by politicians in particular who didn’t agree and then there was Covid followed by the war in Ukraine which have had economic repercussions from which we seem to be beginning to recover, unlike Germany who were the leading power, but are now in economic difficulties.

There was always a political dimension to the EEC, EC, EU. Its very foundation was politically motivated. What makes trying to avoid another World War 'not political'? Seems extremely political to me... And requiring members to follow democratic principles in governance and elections? Not political?

Anyway, the political dimension was constantly noted in speeches and in the media right from the start. No, I don't recall that much about it, but it's there in archives for all to see.

Regaining access to the Horizon programme is excellent news and not just for academics but for all us who may one day benefit from the fruits of research. I can't see how it has anything to do with class as has been suggested by some. Don't we all want to see progress on, for example, research into Alzheimers? Why would we not want our academics to share their knowledge and have some input into ongoing research? I deplore the "take back control" slogan but I do want to take back collaborative participation.

Germany is not the EU. It's a member state. Member states have their own particular problems. Because they are autonomous, sovereign states.

Plus we haven’t saved any money - Brexit has already cost more than our membership contributions for the whole of the 40 years we were members . We were told our public services would be better - with a lot more money - how is that going?

Am delighted we're back in with the Horizon project...was a remainer always will be pro Europe

With regard to laws.

The EU has zero power relating to our domestic laws.

Laws relating to fair trading practice and a level playing field relates to the entire membership.

It would make sense otherwise.

25Avalon

It started off as a trading block WWM2. Then it was the EEC European Economic Community and that’s what was put to us to vote for when we first agreed to join. It, however, ceased to be just a trading block and became political. We paid thousands in which we didn’t get back, our laws and sovereignty were overthrown. We no longer controlled our own destiny. That is mostly the reason I voted leave but I admit I didn’t expect that there would be so many voting the same. So we voted leave and left in a democratic vote. However there were so many blocks by politicians in particular who didn’t agree and then there was Covid followed by the war in Ukraine which have had economic repercussions from which we seem to be beginning to recover, unlike Germany who were the leading power, but are now in economic difficulties.

I really do not want to argue over what is in effect a decision now seen as disastrous.

Many of your arguments are plain wrong and unless you want me to detail why they are wrong it is sufficient to understand that these false arguments were used to persuade voters at the referendum which is why we find ourselves in the pickle we are in.

But honestly I replied to the question put to remainers it is a shame that brexiters are unable to do the same.

But I’m not worried as their arguments are now redundant.

What laws were overthrown exactly? How many better laws have been enacted? Did people really vote for lower standards?

Oh and did anyone watch The Last Night if the Proms

😄😄😄🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺

It started off as a trading block WWM2. Then it was the EEC European Economic Community and that’s what was put to us to vote for when we first agreed to join. It, however, ceased to be just a trading block and became political. We paid thousands in which we didn’t get back, our laws and sovereignty were overthrown. We no longer controlled our own destiny. That is mostly the reason I voted leave but I admit I didn’t expect that there would be so many voting the same. So we voted leave and left in a democratic vote. However there were so many blocks by politicians in particular who didn’t agree and then there was Covid followed by the war in Ukraine which have had economic repercussions from which we seem to be beginning to recover, unlike Germany who were the leading power, but are now in economic difficulties.

I voted to remain for myriad reasons

I’ll make a very small list of some - don’t forget that it is a trading block, so we are not talking about anything domestic.

1. We were part of the biggest economic block in the world with nearly 600 million customers.

2. We had freedom of movement to work and live more or less anywhere in Europe

3. Our businesses knew that they had a totally level playing field with all other businesses in the EU, and if they felt something was wrong they had a court to which to appeal.

4. Cooperation between the members in other areas gave each country a far bigger clout than it has as a country trading on its own - the U.K. has discovered this to its chagrin recently - look at Sunak in India!

For me at a personal level I think of Europe as one big cultural union and I love that fact

Businesses have freedom of the movement of goods and services.
Freedom of the movement of capital
Freedom of the movement of labour.

I can go on and on - there are so many reasons for remaining.

Oh and of course for those who have a thing about asylum seekers etc they of course under EU rules should seek to stay in the first safe country - so the U.K. as an outlier member would get a lot fewer with the right to return people who turn up.

Exactly 25Avalon
they twist everything to their own anti brexit agenda.

And why did remainers vote to remain? Look how well Germany is doing? Not. It was agreed when we left we would still be part of Horizon as are several other non EU countries but the EU reneged on that using the Northern Ireland protocol as an excuse/reason. Now that has been resolved we have been allowed to rejoin which is to the advantage of scientific progress. It does not mean we are going back into Europe by any means. Not being in the EU meant we got our own vaccine for Covid first and we have been able to help Ukraine. Brexit deniers will not accept any of this so I’m off for more worthwhile persuits.

Kandinsky

*Not one single Leave voter, not even the Blessed UG, has ever, since before the referendum, given a coherent and logical reason for their vote*

In your opinion.

I voted leave because I wanted to. That’s reason enough.

😀😀 you sound like a petulant 3 year old!

We actually don’t need to have a rational explanation from a brexiter - simply because we now know that Brexit is a busted flush. The reasons for voting to leave were wide and varied - many because the lies were believed, a few for nefarious reasons best really not explored - and some to get back at the austerity programme and Cameron’s hopeless government.

We now understand that it has blown up entirely.

So that at least means that we will gradually get closer to our neighbours and the biggest economic block in the world.

So brexiters I am sorry your hopes and sunny uplands are away with the fairies and of course it is very difficult for some of you to admit that Brexit is kaput but please don’t worry your country will be all the better for it eventually. - although you will be pleased to know re-joining will probably not be in our lifetimes.

Not one single Leave voter, not even the Blessed UG, has ever, since before the referendum, given a coherent and logical reason for their vote

In your opinion.

I voted leave because I wanted to. That’s reason enough.

MayBee70

Why are you relying on a handful of grans to give you these answers? Some of the questions you ask we won’t have the answers to, because it’s not us doing the negotiations.
I know some remainers just use leave voters as a target to vent their anger, they know deep down nothing they say to them will change anything - but for five minutes of tapping away angrily they’ve let off steam and probably feel better temporarily, but nothing has changed. So what is the point?

The only reason I looked at this brexit thread ( I hide 99% of them ) is because the thread title is slightly misleading.
We wanted to rejoin a few years ago as I’m sure has been explained further up the thread ( haven’t read all posts )

I'm not sure that I can take a post seriously when it is made by someone who can take 16 away from 23 and make the answer 10.

Not one single Leave voter, not even the Blessed UG, has ever, since before the referendum, given a coherent and logical reason for their vote.

25Avalon

Kandinsky not only insulting but boring. The same old blinkered only my view is right too often prevails. I know exactly what some posters will say and no arguments logical or otherwise will be considered so there is little point in posting. Good on Urmstongran for her perseverance.

But that’s because if we ask where are the trade deals, where are the benefits, why are we still unable to control our borders, what has happened to the public figures that supported Brexit al we get is ‘ there’s no point saying anything because you won’t listen anyway’. Believe it or not, for the sake of our children and grandchildren we want it to work, but it just isn’t happening.

Kandinsky not only insulting but boring. The same old blinkered only my view is right too often prevails. I know exactly what some posters will say and no arguments logical or otherwise will be considered so there is little point in posting. Good on Urmstongran for her perseverance.